Roughly 97% of parking spaces in NYC are free.

Idlewild,

Yes, I misunderstood you.

It would be great news if the businesses on Vanderbuilt actually made money as a result on those weekends.

But I still ponder my partner's assertion that in virtually all instances, the city has no legal obligation to compensate folks for their losses as result of what it does to a public street.

Although we are aware lawsuits can be brought over ULURP violations, this seems a poor strategy to rely on.

The affected party's seem to be only able to organize people sharing thier point of view and then voting the offending city council, community board and mayor out of office next election.

Idlewild said:

Nope. Since when does saying losing a ton of money mean anything else but that? You have me inferring that people without cars don't contribute to the economy as much. I never said that, never inferred it. However, if you believe that the statement you quote says otherwise, your prerogative.

Do you actually make sense to yourself?

You say that "NYS would lose a ton of money private owned automobiles bring," as an example, you specifically list "stores such as Costco, IKEA and Fairway." Which I then rebut with,

WhyFi said:

My neighbor with a car doesn't spend any more on groceries (per person) at Fairway than I do when I take the subway to Trader Joe's. Do I sit on boxes because my carlessness prevents me from purchasing furniture? Is my $10 lunch at Gran Castillo somehow less economically stimulating than the $10 you spend at the White Castle drive through? Is my unborn child doomed to a naked life, all because I can't drive someplace to purchase clothing?

So, where's the "ton of money," that NYS is losing in this, your own example? How is NYS losing money by me not DRIVING to Fairway when I walk to the corner store, instead?

Just to clarify: All of the bike lanes, not just the PPW one, were put in place after DOT obtained the approval of community boards.

Two things could result:

The so-far quiet majority of car owners could make sure that they control the various community boards in the future.

Or

Those in favor of changes in how we alott public space could retain control of community boards, and have the present trend continue.

As CTK recently stated: we have the government we voted for.

Boygabriel said:

The PPW bike lane isn't a fiasco by any reasonable defenition of the word.

I believe that he was referring to the Gothamist article linked above - valets at a restaurant parked cars in a bike lane. A cop car sat idly by.

What makes a delivery dude on a bike any more worthy of a use of public space than someone parking their car? Either way the space is dedicated to usage beyond the realm of large swaths of people in the city, and both uses are using public space to generate private profits. People biking over the bridge can use the JMZ too, so by that logic there shouldn't be bike lanes either. So what are you talking about?

Never mind the utilization rates...

Neither use is more or less morally reprehensible than the other.

Whyfi-

yup.

BG-

I continue to believe that arrangements could be made that would better accommodate better groups. For example, by making the regulations more flexible.

If I was tsar, I would listen to the two sides:

1. That of the Valet company and the restaurant's.

2. That of the bikers.

I would then look at the value that each brought to my kingdom, and the utility or "gain" that each experienced by having use of the space, and then (finally) proceed with adapting the use ...or not.

In the real world, I hope that the struggling democracy I live in would collectively go thru through a similar process: It should look at such situations and without having a preconceived favorite side. It should be interested in learning more.

Although we may not want the police to use discretion, they do. In this instance the police seem to have decided that the bike lane was not the best use of the space.

As you are aware, it is very difficult to get unpopular laws enforced. If the pro-bike community moves too quickly in getting its lanes, and does not appear as reasonable, it will lose the police and the public as its allies.

[I would like the public to be in more in charge of the police, so that they have less discretion but I will not digress into dreaming of the distant future]

Staying in the present, I hope she doesn't mind me using her as example again, but here goes some good advice:

Folks like Homeowner

and her 3 kids are, and should be, very valuable to this city.

Don't lose them as allies in your attempt

to Repurpose Public Space

Boygabriel said:

I also hope that as tzar you'd listen to your public planning advisers, the DOT, and some kind of small business advocate who might argue why it's just so necessary for a restaurant to use public space as a private parking lot.

I think that, as tsar, he'd only have to listen to his lawyers that would advise him of the potential legal liability of adopting less-than-intuitive usage rules that would put physically vulnerable users in harms way.

WhyFi said:

Indeed. In this case, unfortunately, it would take approximately 4.2 metric fuckloads of meals eaten by customers using valet parking to overcome one lost lawsuit. Alas, it's not meant to be.

You may be confusing how I personally wish the world would work, as opposed to how I perceive the world as working.

My message is push the opposition, but appear reasonable.

Lawsuits are simply a part of doing business in NYC. ....I would not fear them as tsar, whether they came from the pro-bike forces or the pro-car forces.

....popular support is what is needed.

cool.

then the task maybe as simple as convincing the politicians (or tsars) that the threat of harm from a bike lawsuit outweighs the perceived risk of loss of tax revenue.

As well as convincing them 24/7/365 bike lanes are the best use for the space.

BG wrote: Up until quite recently the primacy of the individual's right to unobstructed car ownership and use was an inalienable right in this country.

Yes, I think they should have to fight in order to keep the spaces.

Let's slowly but surely reclaim space for pedestrians, bikes, etc. .....my caution is against going too fast, and remembering to fight the media depicting you as crazed, spanex, speeding bikers where possible.

P.S. I'm not say that we should do nothing until everyone is happy. Everyone will never be happy. Alliance building is not the same as waiting for consensus. Consensus will never happen. This is NYC