Park Pl and Franklin?

You mean Franklin Ave? If that's what you mean, then it is very much, clearly, with no doubt, Crown Heights. Don't even pretend it's PH "heading into" CH, whatever that means.

As for sketchy, I guess it depends where you're moving from. It's all relative.

The general schpiel, and this applies to everywhere in the city, not just CH, is too keep your wits about you, DON'T talk on your fancy phone, especially at night, even if it's your BF on the other end making sure you get home ok. DON'T, DON'T, DO NOT wear your headphones on the street. Ever.

Oh yea, and don't look afraid. Bad news can smell fear a mile away.

I'm not a big headphones person, in general, but I feel that even in the daylight hours, it's not a good idea. Last year, there were a gang of high school/ junior high kids that went around randomly smashing people in the back of the head. Almost no one saw it coming because they either popped out of nowhere or ran up quickly behind them.

Better to be aware of your surroundings AT ALL TIMES- don't think you're completely safe just because the sun's out.

You can avoid cat-callers by ignoring them or politely smiling while passing them by. Blah, blah, I've lived here since '99 and I've never had a problem with cats and/or their call.

whynot_31 is about as non-menacing as they come, yet he can carry himself in a manner that doesn't say, "beat me up! Take my stuff!" As long as you can do the same, you'll be fine.

Did we mention the grocery store? They have crawfish.

whynot_31 said:

I would compare the police pct annual numbers for each of those neighborhoods.

They are on line.

That said, one can live in the worst neighborhoods and significantly reduce the likelihood of being a victim by using basic street smarts. One balances local crime against local apartment prices.

....there is often an inverse correlation between the two.

One of the troubling things about the 77 Pct, which includes both Crown Heights and Prospect Heights, not to mention Crow Hill, Pro Cro and whatever other names are currently in vogue for Franklin Avenue, is that it stretches eastward into some really sketchy areas, unlike the 78th pct which encompasses mostly nice Park Slope, Windsor Terrace and Sunset Park. Crime stats in the 77th Pct. reflect a lot of activity in Ocean Hill, a n'hood in eastern Crown Heights which you probably never heard of before.

Confused yet?

Capt-

I am totally with you re: "not all of Crown Heights being the same", and that people should not paint the neighborhood with one large brush. CH has long been a variety of micro 'hoods (Brower Park, the Albany Projects, the old Jewish Hospital area ...now called ProCro by some), all within the macro 'hood of Crown Heights.

Perhaps a visit to a website such as Spotcrime (which allows the user to narrow crimes down to a specific block) would have been a better recommendation to the OP, unless she has plans of late night, drug seeking walks on Utica Ave.

Like you, I love CH.

But, let's be objective. Even in its safest areas, is Crown Heights as safe as the "most dangerous" area of Windsor Terrace?

I can't say I have done a good comparison study, or spent a lot of time on Spot Crime, but I can't think of anywhere in Windsor Terrace that I could buy drugs (or be mugged) at 1 AM as easily as I could on some of the blocks adjacent to Franklin Ave.

(The drug sales in 709 and 696 Sterling were still pretty apparent when I wandered by there last)

....but, as we have pointed out, Windsor Terrace apartments are often more expensive than those in West Crown Heights. [On the negative side, there also might not be a lot to do for a 20 something in WT].

BTW, I can't say I miss doing child welfare work in the Albany Projects. I'm sure the folks who live there would move if they could.

whynot_31 said:

Sketchy is a relative term.

The neighborhood is better than many, yet not as nice as some.

As the above posters advise, stay aware.

I totally agree with whynot_31, when I moved to Brooklyn for the first time, I just knew I was in "Do or Die Bed-Sty and proudly informed all my friends in Pa. I unfortunately was corrected, that no, I was in Park Slope.

When I moved from Park Slope to Crown Heights in 2009, I really did not have a full perception of the area as I really had not heard of it.

The riots happened in 1991 and I was a club kid living in the East Village, who never watched TV or read the papers. I had barely heard of Brooklyn except for Brooklyn Heights.

Whatchuwant said:

You mean Franklin Ave? If that's what you mean, then it is very much, clearly, with no doubt, Crown Heights. Don't even pretend it's PH "heading into" CH, whatever that means.

As for sketchy, I guess it depends where you're moving from. It's all relative.

The general schpiel, and this applies to everywhere in the city, not just CH, is too keep your wits about you, DON'T talk on your fancy phone, especially at night, even if it's your BF on the other end making sure you get home ok. DON'T, DON'T, DO NOT wear your headphones on the street. Ever.

Oh yea, and don't look afraid. Bad news can smell fear a mile away.

I totally agree with Whatchuwant on two major points.

1. If it's anywhere East of Washington Ave. and Definitive if its Franklin Ave.., you are definitely in Crown Heights without a shadow of a doubt.

Renaming Attica Prison the "Beverly Hills Country Club" will not magically change Attica from what it truly is and magically erase Attica's specific issues and challenges and turn it into what you would expect from the Beverly Hills Country Club.

2. "As for sketchy, I guess it depends where you're moving from. It's all relative."

In Park Slope I lived on 5th Ave. & St. Marks and was nervous for a few years. The Sushi bars and wine bars were already there when I moved in.., but still, I was coming from a totally different perspective of a what a totally "safe area" looked and felt liked.

I've obviously adapted over the years, because despite some of the gorgeous architecture in Crown Heights - primarily East of Nostrand Ave - there is no way say 10 years ago - Franklin Ave and Nostrand Ave of TODAY - would not have scared the shit out of me and sent me running in fear!

Today, I totally adore Crown Heights. Granted it does have it's issues which are very specific to a changing demographic in a mixed-income community.

Also, I have not explored anything East of Kingston Ave. as of yet - Crown Heights is quite huge. But most people moving to Franklin Ave., generally speaking, wanted to be in Park Slope or Prospect Heights Proper and could not afford it, so when they move to Franklin Ave, they seem not to go to far East of it.

As has been wisely suggested, read the various crime statistics for the specific area you are considering, read other blogs, tour the area at various times of the day, afternoon & night if possible, then think hard about your decision.., as ultimately it's up to your specific comfort level.

The relative safety of the neighborhood is very much dependent on what demographic you fall into. I'd hazzard a guess that if you were a black boy between the ages of 16 and 25 Franklin and Park would be an extremely dangerous area since plenty of them have been shot and killed within 3-4 blocks of there in the last couple of years. As a young white woman your biggest danger is from muggings, and following the directions folks posted here will prevent the vast majority of muggers from even approaching you.

As a someone who is middle-aged and rarely is out after 2am, I find the neighborhood to be safe.

Hey Jopie can you say what part of Prospect Park South you are familiar with? I could probably give you an accurate comparison once I know that.

I think answering this question is really difficult because people have different levels of comfort and things they look for in an apartment. Some people say the epitome of safe in NYC is the UES or UWS while a super shady neighborhood would be the LES. I cant say its all relative but its easier to answer given your frame of reference. What are the "mixed things" you have heard vs. what are you looking for in a neighborhood?

Done.

Yes, crime is everywhere but I'd like to think the police give Franklin foot patrols in response to it.

We've now been an impact zone for years, and I'd imagine that WT would get similar attention if they deserved it.

There's also that murder map, and it seems to show fewer dots (aka murders) over there vs over here. ....but maybe this data is all skewed.

http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

CH is much better now than in the past, but we still have a long way to go.

I hope for a calm summer

This is a wonderful neighborhood, that is changing fast. No different from the East Village a few decades ago. Crown Heights is actually, well cool.

whynot_31 said:

There's also that murder map, and it seems to show fewer dots (aka murders) over there vs over here. ....but maybe this data is all skewed.

http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

Too bad the crime map doesn't tell who's murdering who and why. It might be a lot more informative if it did.

Yes, ethnicity would be interesting. Also, longevity in the n'hood. Education and employment would also add to the picture.