Bike Accident in Prospect Park on Saturday
Anyone know if the people were O.K. today involved in the bike accident in the park around noon? It looked pretty bad with a lot of blood and ambulances. Makes you stop and remember that we need to share that park road with both experienced and less experienced bicyclists as well as walkers, people with strollers, children, joggers and roller bladers.
Comments
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True. Hope everyone ends up without serious injury. I've never seen a bicyclist "share" the road with pedestrians in PPP, at least not at the crossings. One of my jobs requires me to drive almost daily for several hours all throughout the city (manhattan) and I see this constantly.
I'm all for bike lanes, but it would be nice if cyclists used them and obeyed traffic laws (don't get me started on drivers, especially cabbies.) When drivers or pedestrians don't they suffer consequences... death, tickets, accidents... As a motorcycle rider and former cyclist I take the responsibility for riding a vehicle that is no match for a car/truck/BUS!
Everyday, at almost EVERY red light I see peds. drivers, and cyclists putting themselves and others in danger, it seems that the bottom line is that whatever the mode of transportation, no one respects anyone else... and harbors a false sense of entitlement in respect to their personal space as it reflects on the roads or sidewalks they use.
I understand a cyclist turning laps in the park not wanting to stop for red lights, and I understand trucks, and cars needing to double park to load and unload in bike lanes, I equally understand the frustrations drivers and peds. have with cyclists (skate boarders etc...) disobeying laws, basically risking their lives against tons of steel because they feel they "share" the road.
My point is that we don't share the road.
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My point is that we don't share the road.
Hence the need to ban automobiles in Prospect Park.
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Just as an FYI: this accident was between two bicylysts and no cars were involved. This has nothing to do with cars and bikes. I was amazed how much injured this one person was.
I have been cut off numerous times by people squeezing in and I have been yelled at by the bike teams when I have had to swerve to miss a little one on a scooter (guess I should just run the kids over so I don't interrupt their training)
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WTGirl said:
I have been cut off numerous times by people squeezing in and I have been yelled at by the bike teams when I have had to swerve to miss a little one on a scooter (guess I should just run the kids over so I don't interrupt their training)That's a pretty stupid comment. It isn't about an inconvenience, it's about safety. You swerving in to their path is obviously dangerous. It's good to be aware enough to avoid a collision in front of you, but your level of awareness and anticipation should extend to traffic trailing you, as well.
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hope everyone involved is ok.
I've been yelled at by cyclists more than I can remember when running in Prospect Park -- when I'm following the rules. It happens when they want to pass a slower cyclist and so swerve into the ped. lane and yell at me to move. It happens when I want to cross the street and they have a red light and they yell to get out of their way. I bike for recreation from time to time and the lack of respect for pedestrians is always insane.
I can completely imagine these same intitled cyclists expecting slower/newer cyclists to get out of their way no matter what as well.mostly unrelated story: On Friday night I was walking home in the rain on Franklin Avenue. A cyclist came up behind me on the sidewalk and I jumped out of the way. I said (nicely) that cyclists aren't supposed to be on the sidewalk and recently our neighborhood has had a lot of ticketing for cyclists, so just be aware. He told me "eff the po po" and then kept riding towards a group of people walking. He then turned around (while still biking towards the pedestrians on the sidewalk) to yell that his "daddy owns a dealership" whatever that means. My husband claims it's an Aqua Teen Hunger Force reference which certainly doesn't improve my view of this guy. The pedestrians in front of me had to step off of the sidewalk to get out of his way. Classy.
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most cyclist are fine people except the jerk offs who don't have brakes.
I hope we get updated on these folks and everything is okay.
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xlizellx said:
mostly unrelated story: On Friday night I was walking home in the rain on Franklin Avenue. A cyclist came up behind me on the sidewalk and I jumped out of the way. I said (nicely) that cyclists aren't supposed to be on the sidewalk and recently our neighborhood has had a lot of ticketing for cyclists, so just be aware. He told me "eff the po po" and then kept riding towards a group of people walking. He then turned around (while still biking towards the pedestrians on the sidewalk) to yell that his "daddy owns a dealership" whatever that means. My husband claims it's an Aqua Teen Hunger Force reference which certainly doesn't improve my view of this guy. The pedestrians in front of me had to step off of the sidewalk to get out of his way. Classy.Don't confuse a d-bag on a bike with a cyclist. If s/he's on the sidewalk, they're not cyclists.
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side walks are fine if nobody is on them
, back in the day it was the only safe way to ride in brooklyn. the law against riding on sidewalks is very new. plus the further you get from downtown areas aka gentrifying areas, side walks aren't that crowded. -
The Slope's sidewalks are already congested by strollers and granny carts. Adding in bikes could have deadly consequences.
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I'm all for banning cars in the park, that eliminates 1/3 of the problem. After that we could focus on the cyclists that break the laws in the park as well as the peds.
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That's a pretty stupid comment. It isn't about an inconvenience, it's about safety. You swerving in to their path is obviously dangerous. It's good to be aware enough to avoid a collision in front of you, but your level of awareness and anticipation should extend to traffic trailing you, as well.
Really? Stupid? Really.....so a public park that is for ALL kinds of people and ALL kinds of activities on a weekend should be reserved for the same group of guys training and yelling at us? Next time, I will run the 4 year old over.....because that was my option....swerve to miss the swerving 4 year old or else run the kid over or break hard and fly over my handle bars. Frankly....if I had the energy....now that Tupper is gone....I would fight to ban bike training during the busy weekend park hours. In fact your comment is kind of giving me the energy to take this on. Its the same attitude I find in the park when I want to take my young children biking. I have to worry about a small group of guys who think they own the road.
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The problem is the guys behind her that are going too quickly and/or too close to someone else to avoid any slight swerving. I'd like to see one actually stop and yell their nasty words to someone's face, but they just say their bit and speed off.
Speed biking is dangerous. Everyone I know who races has had emergency surgery at least once as a result of a race collision among bikes. All of those I can think of at the moment have plates and screws holding parts of their faces together after such wrecks. To me, that's an activity that doesn't belong in a recreational city park. Sure, stay in shape with some laps but please be aware and courteous to other users, it's really easy. I say this as someone who regularly jogs or bikes the loop, and walks my dog in the park daily.
I hope whoever was hurt, recovers quickly.
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WTGirl said:
Really? Stupid? Really.....so a public park that is for ALL kinds of people and ALL kinds of activities on a weekend should be reserved for the same group of guys training and yelling at us? Next time, I will run the 4 year old over.....because that was my option....swerve to miss the swerving 4 year old or else run the kid over or break hard and fly over my handle bars. Frankly....if I had the energy....now that Tupper is gone....I would fight to ban bike training during the busy weekend park hours. In fact your comment is kind of giving me the energy to take this on. Its the same attitude I find in the park when I want to take my young children biking. I have to worry about a small group of guys who think they own the road.Wow, talk about comprehension failure - take a deep breath and re-read. I said that your insinuation, that the cyclists yelled at you because they're being inconvenienced, is stupid. They're yelling because you're putting yourself and others in danger when you act erratically.
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I believe my friend was injured in this accident. She is now in the hospital and we are searching for details. If you saw this happen on Saturday, would you mind getting in touch? You can e-mail me at [email protected]. Thanks so much for any help, Jeremy
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I wish the police would start enforcing the walkway down from the Museum to the Library. That is where the bicyclists are constantly a problem in my opinion.
That jerkoff on the sidewalk sounds like a real idiot. Sadly there are a lot of them around these days.
Getting a bike does not mean you need a license like you do with a car, so I think that eliminates some of the responsibility which is necessary. Part of the reason I find giving people tickets for riding on the sidewalk such a joke. I am one angry bicyclist about that. Gotta go to the courthouse in the middle of July, fun, to sort out the ticket thing.
It is an issue riding in the park. When you got a good groove going and then pedestrians come along, it is hard to stop.
Sorry about the accident. That sounds really ugly. I hope everyone involved is ok.
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I think a big part of the problem in Prospect Park is that the rules are confusing.
The lane that has a stencil of a bike in it is only for bikes when there is traffic in the park. From 5- 7pm from Grand Army Plaza to Park Circle and from 7-9 am going the other way. Non holiday weekdays only. Confused? Me too.
Do bikes have to stop at red light when the road is closed to traffic? I asked a cop, he did not know.
Also it is had to tell where you can ride in the park. I see all sorts of cars and trucks riding all over the paths and sidewalks, I am never sure if I can ride there.
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WhyFi said:
Wow, talk about comprehension failure - take a deep breath and re-read. I said that your insinuation, that the cyclists yelled at you because they're being inconvenienced, is stupid. They're yelling because you're putting yourself and others in danger when you act erratically.Swerving to avoid a kid on a scooter may be erratic behavior, but the danger is caused by the excessive speed of the cycle convoys. Swerving may cause a crash if there was a rollerblader or jogger, but the severity would be in a different league than an accident with the (generally) less-than-friendly cyclists that race the park.
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The very slick roads at the time certainly didn't help. You're taking a chance when you ride in drizzle on any kind of bike without disc brakes. Does the NYPD or Parks Department create investigative write-ups on bicycle accidents, or just report that one happened and let the lawyers sort through the details?
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This brings to memory the rules they have in skiing, wherein it is the obligation of the skier to avoid the person in front of them, AS OPPOSED to the obligation of the person in front having an obligation to avoid being creamed by the person behind.
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8thandPrez said:
Swerving to avoid a kid on a scooter may be erratic behavior, but the danger is caused by the excessive speed of the cycle convoys. Swerving may cause a crash if there was a rollerblader or jogger, but the severity would be in a different league than an accident with the (generally) less-than-friendly cyclists that race the park.Sooooooo you'd defend someone that causes the accident, but condemn the non-liable party because of the severity? Sorry, doesn't make sense to me.
As far as your sole condemnation of cyclists, I've been riding in park, toolin' along at 20 mph, only to have a train of inline skaters thunder past. A runner, similarly cut-off and collided with by an erratic swerve, is one 5-foot fall away from potential blunt force trauma to the noggin. Is your solution to have everyone travel at speeds under 10mph?
And the "less-than-friendly cyclists" notion - how do you know that they're less than friendly? Because (some) occasionally yell? Okay. Um, do you exercise? Imagine that you're exerting yourself, your heart rate at three times its normal pace, gobs of air rushing in and out of your lungs to keep up with the oxygen demands of your body. Do you think that you're going to talk at cool, measured pace and tone? If you see someone 10 yards ahead, meandering through lanes, and you want to alert them to your presence, what's your voice going to sound like? Is your inside voice going to cover that gap? Give me a break with this "they're such mean tyrants," crap. I challenge you to politely engage a cyclist that's stopped along the path - ask questions about their bike ("hey - that's cool, how much does it weigh?"), ask for a shop recommendation or ask for directions - I can guarantee you that you'll find a better nice guy-to-asshole ratio than you will in the general public (people that exercise regularly generally have a more positive outlook).
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whynot_31 said:
This brings to memory the rules they have in skiing, wherein it is the obligation of the skier to avoid the person in front of them, AS OPPOSED to the obligation of the person in front having an obligation to avoid being creamed by the person behind.Doesn't the very nature of controlling speed in skiing dictate that you zig-zag in wide berths? Makes sense for the onus to be on the passer, in that scenario, but rules of traffic are more appropriate here - stay in your lane and safely negotiate merges/lane changes/turns.
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I always thought the skiing rule was written to protect the slowpoke (aka me) who must zigzag to maintain a speed they are comfortable with (i.e. 15 mph), FROM the skier who is able to fly down the hill at 50 mph without turning at all.
By charging the skilled skier with avoiding those in front of them, the ski slope (ahem, "park") can be enjoyed by everyone.
....of course, those who want to be around only talented skiers could pay top dollar to go to a challenging course where they can go at break neck speeds. For skiers, there is Utah. And for bikers who like to race, there are palindromes.... or even hours at prospect park that is not used as much.
At some point, the yelling guy(s) with the spandex are the jerks. I'd say it is when they are going 25 mph on a sunny, crowded Saturday afternoon.
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whynot_31 said:
I always thought the skiing rule was written to protect the slowpoke (aka me) who must zigzag to maintain a speed they are comfortable with (i.e. 15 mph), FROM the skier who is able to fly down the hill at 50 mph without turning at all.Yes, this is what I was getting at. Zig-zagging is not necessary to control speed on a bike.
whynot_31 said:And for bikers who like to race, there are palindromes.... or even hours at prospect park that is not used as much.
1) They're not racing. When they're racing, they're going faster. When they're racing, the path is essentially closed and there are marshals.
2) track racing is a considerably different discipline than road racing.
3) yes, it makes a lot more sense to go on off hours, but not everyone has that schedule flexibility (especially when you're trying to get 4 or 5 people together). -
Racing is relative term.
But suffice it to say, that I think you are not putting enough responsibility on the bikers who go fast.
I think you are putting too much of an obligation on the casual park users. For example, I do not feel it is everyone's obligation to stay out of their way or risk being hit, or even yelled at.
I suspect the minority of bikers that I describe does a disservice to their cause, and would not be surprised if park users convince the police to give them speeding tickets.
I see no reason why the park should not have a speed limit for bikes during peak hours.
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whynot_31 said:
I think you are not putting enough responsibility on the bikers who go fast.I think you are putting too much of an obligation on the casual park users. For example, I do not feel it is everyone's obligation to stay out of their way or risk being hit, or even yelled at.
No, I'm saying that there's obligation in both directions.
During hours when automobiles aren't allowed, the outer two lanes are expressly dedicated towards faster moving traffic. People meandering in and through those lanes need to do so with caution to ensure their own safety.
Cyclists are under obligation to anticipate traffic flow in front of them and do their best to avoid it. In the above case, the bike rider that swerved to avoid a kid, the cyclists clearly upheld that obligation by virtue of not plowing into the swerver. The severity of the cyclists admonition is purely up to interpretation, which is why I provided context above - much like tone is difficult to read in online conversations, tone is also difficult to read when talk is loud and abrupt, due to exertion or adrenaline kick when the 'fight or flight' response is triggered by danger. ...or would you prefer no admonition at all?
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they should really get rid of cars and make more lanes for everyone, there are more walkers, runners, roller bladers, bikers etc.. than cars. its really silly how they still allow cars in there.
typical of short shortsightedness of politicians. there is enough roads for cars to get through to the other area. I myself almost never even use the so called pass through lol. I took the other ways around it doesn't make too much difference. once i used it cause a friend insisted, wasn't much faster. Its not like the central park pass through which is a real one. this is more like a huge detour.
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FYI, whynot - your editing is making it difficult to address points.
On that note, 'racing' is not a relative term. Differences in output during training and racing conditions are well known and documented every day by people with measuring instruments to do so. Training rides regularly include speeds of 20-25 mph whereas racing sprints top 40 mph. Bunch sprinting is HIGHLY discouraged outside of races or select group rides on (typically) country roads ('town sign' sprinting is common - wherein you pour in on before coming back in to city limits). In the thousands of miles that I have put in at PP, I have NEVER seen a group sprint and I very rarely see individuals working on sprint intervals.
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I rarely see park users who are not considerate of the fast bikers. In an attempt to avoid being hit and yelled at they look both ways, then scurry across the drive to avoid being hit or yelled at.
So, I think the pedestrians and slower bikers are presently doing their part, and a speed limit for bikers would be ideal. The limit would define what speed is reasonable given the variety of people using the park. It would basically define "racing" and "being a prick".
...the limit would be based on the day, time of day, and season.
The bikes that go fast inconvenience too many people at present, and a radar gun would allow racers to be objectively judged.
Until such a law is passed, I hope people start to refuse to move out of their way or at least yell back at them when they act like they own the park.
....when it comes to respecting pedestrians and slower bikers, some of the fast bikers act like livery drivers.
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I wish the police would start enforcing the walkway down from the Museum to the Library. That is where the bicyclists are constantly a problem in my opinion.
Bicyclists take to the sidewalk on that stretch between the Museum and the Library because the auto traffic on that part of Eastern Parkway is absolutely terrifying. Both Eastern & Ocean Parkways are long overdue for a traffic-calming redesign.
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Danny-
Eastern Parkway is presently being "calmed", CB8 approved it.Construction is happening over the next year or so.
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