This site is closed to new comments and posts.

Notice: This site uses cookies to function.
If you are not comfortable with cookies then please don't browse this website.

Should I have said something? — Brooklynian

Should I have said something?

dance rehearsal
dance rehearsal
edited November -1 in Park Slope

Hi all,

I know this board loves talking past each other almost as much as it does avoiding actual, personal confrontations... Well - let's just jump right in:

This morning - around 10am on the end of the F train platform I see a "couple". A man with strangely balding mo-hawk, a nose ring, and not a day younger then 30.. and a girl. He was leaning up against a post and was leaning up against his.. against him. He's curling her hair and generally petting her.

Now, this girl was definitely not of legal age... kids jeans, pink abercrombie shirt, and upon getting closer I can see she's gently chocking back tears.

I notices that his touches became less and less the more and more I glared at them....

Should I have said something? Could he have just been her brother? Or cousin, or uncle?

Anyway, they got off at Bergen...

Comments

  • drano
    drano

    It's difficult to say with the information provided. Sounds creepy, but...who knows?

  • witch-king
    witch-king

    Take down the info and call it in to 911. I wouldn't have confronted them directly.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    Assuming the girl was under 17 and the guy was more than 4 years older than her, one of the criteria for Statutory Rape would be met. However, the police would also have to prove that the contact you observed met the definition of Sexual Contact, as defined here:

    http://www.svfreenyc.org/survivors_legal.html#A1

  • pragmaticguy
    pragmaticguy

    I see women in their 30s wearing Abercrombie stuff. Men too for that matter. And they haven't even reached mid-life crisis yet but apparently their taste in outerwear is still in their teens. Anyway...there's not much you can do. If he wasn't holding a gun to her head and she's not asking for help you can't make assumptions. Could be any number of reasons they were together.

  • dance rehearsal
    dance rehearsal

    the police would have to prove that the contact you witnessed met the definition of Sexual Contact, as defined here:

    Do you even think before you write? Police aren't in the business of proving anything... at all.. ever...period.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    ah, I see I must be very exact today regarding the word "prove".

    My last class in Criminal Law was quite some time ago, so I didn't take the time to give you a long version:

    "the police would have to have a reasonable suspicion that an offense (such as Sexual Contact, defined below) had occurred to arrest him at the scene.

    If they were not able to arrest him on the scene, they would have to gather enough evidence to allow a district attorney to convince a grand jury to indict him, which would then allow them to arrest him.

    Based on evidence provided by the police, the district attorney assigned to the case would finally have to prove to the judge or jury such an offense occurred. Of course, this last part assumes the guy isn't just offered a plea to something like disorderly conduct.

    While the police can make an arrest and do an investigation without the girl's cooperation, the chance of it resulting in a conviction is diminished"

    is that better?

    P.S. Depending on her relationship with the man, she'd likely receive services from the Safe Horizon's Child Advocacy Center on Schermerhorn Street.

    The NYPD Special Victims Units have done a pretty good job about interviewing kids at CACs (as opposed to at NYPD offices), and having kids examined at CACs (as opposed to at locals ERs).

    I aim to please

  • dance rehearsal
    dance rehearsal

    is that better?

    Not really.

    This thread wasn't meant to invite a half ass'd criminal law tutorial by someone who watches to much Law and Order SVU.

    It was meant to open an intelligent conversation about how, when, where, and under what circumstance one should confront another member of society who may or may not being involved in something ranging from uncouth to downright wrong.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    oh, in that case, I'd first follow the advice given to you by the poster above me (witch-king), and (in less urgent situations) call Safe Horizon.

    I've linked Safe Horizon above, and found them to be much more helpful than the police or ACS when it comes to questions like "What do I do when I suspect child sexual abuse?".

    Together with ACS, the district attorney's office and the police, Safe Horizon is on the front line against child sexual abuse in NYC.

    However, like Witch-King advised, I predict that they would advise you not try to intervene by yourself, and instead call 911.

    A lot of factors go in to determining whether one should intervene in a situation on their own, so I'd need a lot more details about the situation before I advised you to intervene alone.

    Are you a big guy?

    How big was the mohawk guy?

    Were other people around?

    ....if you were really concerned, you could have gone right into the police Pct at Bergen and told them what direction they headed.

  • opossumqueen
    opossumqueen

    I don't know what the answer is, but I wish the cop who used to post here would chime in with how a cop my respond to such a call. I know I'm hesitant to call 911 over non-emergencies but surprisingly, that's often what it turns out authorities suggest. I guess you could call and then leave it up to them to decide how to procede, as others have suggested.

    Also, it could have been that she was upset because of something completely unrelated to the guy being a creep. Either way, I've know I've been in similar situations, and it just left me feeling uneasy and frustrated with myself for not knowing what to do so I understand why you're posting this.

  • mat
    mat

    Wow, DR. passive aggressive much? Yes, much.

    Edit by mods - no name calling please

  • opossumqueen
    opossumqueen

    Also, have you seen the subway (train, not restaurant) spaghetti video? That's how not to confront someone (on both women's parts).

    A simple, concerned smile and "are you okay?" might have been a good start.

  • stacey
    stacey

    Personally I would have looked directly at the girl and asked "are u ok? Or you could have told the token booth clerk, or one of the conductors.

    Rule of the subway is if you see something say something.

  • pmonk
    pmonk

    Dance Rehearsal said:

    the police would have to prove that the contact you witnessed met the definition of Sexual Contact, as defined here:

    Do you even think before you write? Police aren't in the business of proving anything... at all.. ever...period.

    Wow - I love when dumb asses call people out!

    So - in a suppression hearing, the police don't have to prove that they did not violate someone's 4th Amendment right when they stopped and searched someone?

  • pmonk
    pmonk

    I am not aware of any laws that forbid minors (if she was in fact one)from having non-sexual relations with adults?

  • jenee
    jenee

    Not sure if this is the same incident you are speaking about..

    http://brooklynian.com/forum/park-slope/perv-on-f-train-this-morning?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+brooklynian-topics+(Brooklynian.com+|+All+New+Topics%29&utm_content=Yahoo%21+Mail#post-733367

    If not, then there is way to many pervs on the F Train.

    Also, this has long been an issue in Japan. Women getting groped. I don't know for a fact, just relating some heresay.

    Supposedly they have separate cars to prevent this type of thing. Interesting how they would enforce that.

    As New York keeps growing, this type of thing is going to happen more and more frequently.

    When I first moved to the hood, as a single girl, I saw guys jerking off before me and at me a couple of times. It was gross and frustrating, so I can really relate.

    You have individuals living here who have no concept of living in an urban environment. Couple that with the fact that they do not have a culture where women are free individuals and all sorts of crazy stuff takes place.

    It's tough. Sorry. Didn't really answer your question.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    pmonk said:

    I am not aware of any laws that forbid minors (if she was in fact one)from having non-sexual relations with adults?

    On a cynical day, I'd state that the definitions of laws such as "Child Endangerment" and "Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor" are so vague they can be applied to charge just about any adult near a child with an offense.

    But, I'm totally with you. The original post doesn't make it clear there was sexual contact.

    I think Stacey's response would have been excellent.

  • dance rehearsal
    dance rehearsal

    I am not aware of any laws that forbid minors (if she was in fact one)from having non-sexual relations with adults?

    So I'm in my 30s, work in publishing, and look like you standard 9-5er subway rider... if I was doing what this dude was doing to that girl I'm pretty damn sure it wouldn't have been considered "non-sexual"...

    I almost feel like the fact that this dude was Emo/alternative - or whatever they call it - that it allowed a level of physicality that crosses a line without raising an eyebrow...

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    in life don't get involved unless someone ask for help. sometimes people butt into things they don't know.

  • tateinbk
    tateinbk

    As New York keeps growing, this type of thing is going to happen more and more frequently.

    You may be surprised to know that anecdotal evidence from people who have been in this city since the 70's indicate that Perv Happenings on the train have actually gotten better since then. I would guess that it has more to do with how many cops there are that ride the trains regularly than the population numbers of the city.

    You have individuals living here who have no concept of living in an urban environment. Couple that with the fact that they do not have a culture where women are free individuals and all sorts of crazy stuff takes place.

    Again, the above is actually wildly offensive to NY-ers.

  • whatchuwant
    whatchuwant

    tateinbk said:

    As New York keeps growing, this type of thing is going to happen more and more frequently.

    You may be surprised to know that anecdotal evidence from people who have been in this city since the 70's indicate that Perv Happenings on the train have actually gotten better since then. I would guess that it has more to do with how many cops there are that ride the trains regularly than the population numbers of the city.

    You have individuals living here who have no concept of living in an urban environment. Couple that with the fact that they do not have a culture where women are free individuals and all sorts of crazy stuff takes place.

    Again, the above is actually wildly offensive to NY-ers.

    Thank you!

  • mandyyy
    mandyyy

    I think I too would have wanted to say something but wouldn't. Unless he was physically abusing her in some way then speak up, otherwise mind your business.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In

Categories