Bike Accident in Prospect Park on Saturday

what is confusing about red?

Whyfi "due care" to avoid hitting someone is not the same as stating that pedestrians have the "right of way". Research more.

Are you trying to talk about thier privileges outside of the park to argue that they do not have increased privileges inside the park?

This would be a bad technique as well.

Xlizellx-

I agree, the parks dept is doing a lousy job about informing users about the rules.

I also hope that someday park users have the clout to get car drivers out. Sadly, Robert Moses is alive and well in NYC!

But back to rules. For example, lets take bbqing. While I am ok with much of the bbqing that occurs outside of the prescribed areas because "people want to use the park that way", I wish the park service would loosen the rules to accommodate additional, responsible use.

Until then, it puts people in the position where they choose to break the rules in order to enjoy a fun activity, and the parks dept ends up in the awkward position of acknowledging that they don't enforce "that rule" because they don't have the required staff, or don't like it.

I'm not sure I begrudge the folks who break the rule, as long as they clean up after themselves, and don't bbq in a manner that disturbs others, or destroys the park.

But I would like it more if the parks dept either enforced the rule, because and there are signs that tell people about it.

Dormant rules are problematic on many levels, and -often- one of the reasons rules are repealed is the "shock" that comes from a sudden enforcement of a dormant rule.

I recently read that they are going to further reduce the number of park enforcement officers due to budget cuts, and fear the parks will return to a state wherein "might makes right". In some ways, I already see that happening despite clear, written rules being place.

New York City isn't a place with many shared norms, and it doesn't take much for people to mistakenly believe that they have inherent right to something that is merely a privilege.

While I'm ok with a majority of the population creating a system of rules to declare what behaviors are acceptable, I'm not ok with a "system" in which a few people force their wishes on the majority, or in which the norms are so vague that they are not actually effective.

....the city needs to actively enforce its rules if it going to prevent the fights that often occur when people have no other recourse.

I disagree. I a public park everybody has to put up with everybody else's shit.

excellent. But while this helped clarify where walkers are supposed to be, much remains.

Here are three more good emails:

1. State that you were a pedestrian trying to cross the road, with the light, during hours in which cars were not allowed.

You looked left and began to cross, only to be yelled at by a pack of bikers going at a high rate of speed, who made no attempt to stop at the light. Ask if the parks department will help make bikers, rollerbladers and everyone else learn to stop at lights so you can safely cross.

2. State that you were jogging around the oval during a very busy period (such as a summer Saturday or Sunday) in which cars are not allowed. It was so crowded, you were unable to fit in the space allotted for walkers and joggers. From behind, a large group of bikers quickly approached and yelled at you that you should watch out and allow them to pass.

Ask if the parks department will help make the park safer by placing a maximum speed limit of 20 mph during this period, or ask that bike groups practice only during non-peak hours.

3. Ask if bikes are ever supposed to exceed observe the posted speed limit for cars, 25 mph. Ask if the parks department will help enforce this limit.

Oh, last input from me on the asinine subject - stating that the peds have the right of way is clearly not a way of indicating the privilege to go where ever they please; there would be no reason to state the lane designations, if it were, and this is clearly backed up from the email that I received. Stating that they have the right of way is a clear way of assigning fault in the event of an accident - something that I totally agree with.

Adios.

I've gotta admit, I spent the subway ride home wondering if we needed more rules and laws in Prospect Park, or if Whyfi is right: We just need to observe the rules already in place.

Although it may come as a surprise to Whyfi, I agree with him that we already have plenty of rules right here in the city I love.

Where Whyfi and I seem to disagree is on whether the rules conflict and on which rules should take precedence. We have also clearly taken sides as to who breaks more rules, and is therefore to blame.

While I love a good debate, I've gotta put some of the responsibility for this confusion on the Parks Department. As a result having rules that conflict, contradict and are not enforced, the Parks Department does a disservice to bikers, pedestrians, rollerbladers and joggers.

In the Parks Department defense, I think they had no idea the problems that would be caused when they gave bikes their present privileges. As we've discussed, the present situation has caused bikers to believe:

a. That they can travel as fast as they want regardless of how crowded the park is.

b. They can run red lights

c. They can yell at people in their way

d. Everyone else in the park is inconsiderate of them

As we've discussed, the present situation has caused pedestrians and joggers and roller bladers to:

1. not understand that they are to remain in the inner most lane, no matter how crowded it is.

2. feel unable to cross the roadway, even when they have the light

3. believe that bikers are inconsiderate

4. believe that they still have the right of way, because they perceive the lanes as being in effect only when cars are present.

Whyfi and I both see some urgency to the problem:

-Pedestrians and "not as fast bikers" are getting hit.

-Fast bikers are unable to have a clear path to ride.

So, what to do we do? Where do we start?

As we've stated, both sides would benefit from the Parks Dept stepping up enforcement.

-bikes who run red lights should get a ticket.

-people who cross against the light should get a ticket.

-bikes are already required to have bells; enforcing this rule might prevent riders from yelling

-racing should be defined, and bikes should get a ticket when they exceed the parks's speed limit of 25 mph

None of the above would be new rules. By observing and enforcing the above, I think we would all get along. I think bikers would have to slow down enough while approaching and leaving traffic lights that the majority of the concerns voiced on this thread would be moot.

While this is the approach I advocate, I am not sure that it will be one the city will get to voluntarily take. By simultaneously stating in red "that pedestrians always have the right of way", and making bikers believe that they have the exclusive privilege of the outer lane, it wouldn't take a very skilled injury lawyer to argue that the Parks Dept must do more than just enforce the rules on the books.

I suspect it will be forced to actually clean up its books. And, during the course of said lawsuit, I suspect the city will realize that the majority of park users are in favor of more restrictions.

It will be yet another situation in which the public grants a privilege to a group of people and is forced to realize that continuing to allow it simply isn't feasible. I predict one or more of the following will result:

-a prohibition from prime, summer weekend hours.

-a maximum group size.

-a speed less than 25 mph.

I expect to be still living in NYC when this eventually happens, and I will say to myself: "What a shame. If only the fast bikers would have realized they were in the minority, and that they were being given a privilege to be cherished, not abused. If only they tried to present themselves as people who were considerate of other users."

...and then I will enjoy a bike ride or walk around the park, while following the rules that have always existed.

xlizellx-

I think my typo exemplifies the confusion felt by a lot of the pedestrians.

-Outside the park, one moves to the right if one is slow.

-In the park, one is told to move to the left.

This switch is too confusing for many parkgoers (whether they are native NYers, or from the suburbs, or from Boliva) to grasp.

The occasional weekend user has no idea where they are supposed to be, and the Parks Dept does a lousy job of letting them know. It's a recipe for disaster.

There are bike races in Prospect Park. They start at 6:30 am

http://www.bikereg.com/events/register.asp?eventid=13347

IF YOU SAW THE ACCIDENT ON SATURDAY JUNE 11, PLEASE READ:

I am writing on behalf of the friends and family of the pedestrian that was severely injured in this accident. If you saw the accident or aftermath, and know where it occurred, could you please get in touch?

We will be in the park THIS AFTERNOON SUNDAY, trying to pinpoint the exact location of the crash, and any help would be more appreciated than you know.

Please write to me at [email protected] if you are able to meet us, and leave a good way to reach you. Thank you endlessly for your help. We depend on your kindness.

I urge you to sign the petition in this link. It's a well-stated petition about park safety.

CLICK HERE for the link that includes the petition.

It was put together by Kensington resident Mark Simpson.

The petition calls for several measures that he says would help improve park traffic safety, including painting lanes on the main drive to more accurately reflect which lanes are for cyclists and which are for runners and pedestrians (the current painted bicycle lane is meant to be used only when the park is open to car traffic). He would also like to add more signage clearly displaying intended lane usage, move fast bikes to the center lanes, double the number of crosswalks and place yellow flashing lights into the crosswalk lines at the traffic signal crosswalks, where cyclists would be required to stop and wait for any pedestrians to cross before moving onward.

“The current signage is confusing,” he said. “The bike lane isn’t where bikes are supposed to be. Right now it’s every man for himself. There seems to be one school of pedestrians who think they have the right of way and its up to cyclist to avoid them. Others are scared to cross even when they have the light.”

Simpson hopes that his petition will provide a more moderate plan for improving park safety than that some of the ideas that have been proposed on the local Kensington-Windsor Terrace Yahoo! group, which include banning all fast cycle riders from the park.

“There were people calling to ban fast riders from the park,” he said. “I was looking for a more rational approach to how to make the park safer.

Simpson plans to present the petition to the Prospect Park Alliance and Councilmember Brad Lander once enough signatures have been gathered.

Ditto. Mine was only the 50th signature... Let's go, people... We should be able to do better than that.

The Prospect Park Alliance "Community Committee" has been working on this for a very long time.