Living Around the Crown Heights/Utica Avenue 2/3/4/5

As you are likely aware, there are areas of the city with less crime than Utica and President St. Spotcrime will tell you all about it.

Most apartments are a tradeoff wherein

space and crime (safety)

is weighted against

cost.

How much space are you getting for what cost?

Mamacita said:

It can't be anymore crime ridden as Park Slope.

Mama-

Being charged $5 for bad latte is not a crime.

i'm pretty familiar with nostrand and fulton. i'd say utica and president is worse in terms of safety and run-down-ness. i wouldn't live there. sorry if/when i offend someone.

I don't think I'd have my SO if it's a female walking around there late at night alone, so be prepared to meet her when she gets off the train. President St. is better than Utica because it's more residential. Don't think you'd want to be on Utica as there's too much truck, bus and car traffic and all the fumes and noise that brings. I wonder if you'd ever be able to open your windows.

I dont understand these posts. They are re-occurring on this site. Its as if no one reads the previous posts wherein all the answers are the same. (Moderator: can we just create a sticky post for CH/PLG so we can answer these questions once and for all?)

Why substitute someone else's judgement for your own? Walk around, open your eyes and actually talk to your prospective neighbors, look at some crime maps http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map and then make a judgement. Does it look rundown? Are there sketchy people around? What does your lizard brain tell you about how you feel on the block?

When I looked for apartment I would go near the place I wanted to rent at all hours of the day and talk to people. I would talk to the shopkeeper, elderly lady at the bus stop, the mom with kids, the young professional coming back from work, the rambunctious teenage boy and even the beat officer. They will all give you different opinions and all honest if you approach with a polite " excuse me sir" or "ma'am" and explain why you are asking. But when all is said and done you have to go with what you feel comfortable with. When in doubt dont do it.

Eastbloc I did read the post. So far no one posting actually lives in that specific area. I have been in that area and have family that live there.

Sorry my post didnt live up to your standards and is considered "patronizing advice". But the fact is I gave advice that is sound and that was given to me when I was apartment searching. There were a few 'hoods that I was unsure of and accordingly didnt sign a lease. This was because I had all the visual clues about the hood that made me uneasy (4+ locks on doors, shady men on the corner etc etc). Then when I asked people on the street about living there they paused, said it was "changing", told me about gun violence/robberies or had lots of verbal and nonverbal cues that werent a ringing endorsement or actively communicated "I wouldnt live here unless I had another choice". Plus there was crime data to support what folks were saying. I was unsure (it was a nice, spacious and cheap apt!) and didnt sign a lease. And then I found something that fit me better.

Brooklynian was only helpful to me when I was making the decision inasmuch as the posters who encouraged trusting your gut (and echoed the good advice I was given in person). Reading all the Brooklynian posts pro and con on "safety" I was still left with: What do I know about these posters? Is their background and outlook similar to mine? Those questions didnt arise when I used my own eyes/gut and talked to prospective neighbors. Only the poster can decide if this is a worthwhile deal or whether to keep looking for a better fit.

What I'd like to know is: which one of you "experts" actually lives anywhere near Utica and President?

I've been working in the community garden at Schenectady and Dean, one block off Utica, for five years. Out there three, four, sometimes five days a week. Often until dusk. Once in five years a lady complained to me that this was "Weeksville", implying white guys shouldn't be there. Otherwise, nothing but positive energy. Young guys helping pull weeds from the garden, a lady from the Weeksville Houses is the hardest worker in the garden, tons of parents bringing their kids in to see our 40 chickens. Lots of local volunteers.

I've also been selling 47 condos on the corner of Bergen and Schenectady for 1 1/2 years. Open houses 3 and 4 days a week. Never a problem. We've got 27 new families moving in at the end of the month.

As Geoff Lawton, famed permaculturist, once said "All of the world's problems can be solved in a garden." How true it is!

Capt. Planet said:

I mean like actually shop on Utica Avenue?

I don't buy what they sell on Utica.

Walk with your significant other around Utica Avenue after dark?

Not until the city approves my concealed-carry permit.

Did you know that the Councilwoman Darlene Mealy has an office on the corner of President and Utica?

So? Is she personally going to intervene on my behalf when I'm being beaten and robbed?

Did you know that the Utica stop on the 3,4 was the third busiest train stop in Brooklyn? Did ya?

What is this, trivia night?

Good luck with the condo sales.

Capt. Planet said:

I've been working in the community garden at Schenectady and Dean, one block off Utica, for five years. Out there three, four, sometimes five days a week. Often until dusk. Once in five years a lady complained to me that this was "Weeksville", implying white guys shouldn't be there. Otherwise, nothing but positive energy. Young guys helping pull weeds from the garden, a lady from the Weeksville Houses is the hardest worker in the garden, tons of parents bringing their kids in to see our 40 chickens. Lots of local volunteers.

I've also been selling 47 condos on the corner of Bergen and Schenectady for 1 1/2 years. Open houses 3 and 4 days a week. Never a problem. We've got 27 new families moving in at the end of the month.

As Geoff Lawton, famed permaculturist, once said "All of the world's problems can be solved in a garden." How true it is!

Lol, Capt never fails w/his agenda.

My childhood friend has a recording studio in the area. It's bad business. I recently met with a buddy of mine from college who lives in the area... the day we met, he was like 'damn...someone got shot at the Utica Ave 3-4 station while I was waiting for the train'. It's REAL. Yea maybe there are young men helping with the garden. Those aren't the men the OP needs to worry about. Not worth the gamble IMO, w/people like Capt Planet bearing down that area is gonna lose its price advantage too. Look at Queens...

Trumystic said:

Eastbloc I did read the post. So far no one posting actually lives in that specific area. I have been in that area and have family that live there.

Sorry my post didnt live up to your standards and is considered "patronizing advice". But the fact is I gave advice that is sound and that was given to me when I was apartment searching. There were a few 'hoods that I was unsure of and accordingly didnt sign a lease. This was because I had all the visual clues about the hood that made me uneasy (4+ locks on doors, shady men on the corner etc etc). Then when I asked people on the street about living there they paused, said it was "changing", told me about gun violence/robberies or had lots of verbal and nonverbal cues that werent a ringing endorsement or actively communicated "I wouldnt live here unless I had another choice". Plus there was crime data to support what folks were saying. I was unsure (it was a nice, spacious and cheap apt!) and didnt sign a lease. And then I found something that fit me better.

Brooklynian was only helpful to me when I was making the decision inasmuch as the posters who encouraged trusting your gut (and echoed the good advice I was given in person). Reading all the Brooklynian posts pro and con on "safety" I was still left with: What do I know about these posters? Is their background and outlook similar to mine? Those questions didnt arise when I used my own eyes/gut and talked to prospective neighbors. Only the poster can decide if this is a worthwhile deal or whether to keep looking for a better fit.

This sounds nearly EXACTLY like something I posted earlier! I agree with your advice and think its TOTALLY fair!:

http://brooklynian.com/forum/williamsburg-greenpoint-bushwick/safety-please-respond

Capt-

We all hope that the next building of condos you have to sell won't be located in such a violent area of Crown Heights. Next time, we hope the building won't take as long to sell out and willl generate more than $225 a sq ft.

While crime often affects people known to criminals, I hope the 27 hard working, new condo owners have the benefit of a good building security system to keep the less reputable neighbors outside.

Capt-

One is not "timid" if they spend some time researching the claims of a salesman before handing over their money; One is simply "not a fool".

While I (and I predict others...) understand that living on Utica may represent the best tradeoff many NYers can obtain, I (and I predict others...) feel no obligation to imagine that the entire world has been dealt the exact same hand.

It is completely reasonable for a poster to ask us "Is this a safe place to live? Anyone out there really love this area? Should I keep looking?", and for us to respond:

"Unless you need a large apartment so badly that you are willing to sacrifice things to do, and endure crime and crap like xlizellx and others describes. ....yes, you should keep looking"

Capt, the continued Eastward Expansion you hope for is not a certain thing. As CTK aptly points out, and demonstrates: One can get a reasonably sized apartment without losing ones sense of safety. Instead of looking in only one direction (i.e. eastward in Crown Heights), one can simply play their hand elsewhere. For example there are many safe and affordable neighborhoods in Queens.

This makes us optimists who seize the best opportunities available. We view that the world has radically and irreparably changed since the Westward Expansion and wagon trains of the 1800s you oddly seem to admire:

-people in need of a home can go a variety of directions.

-people are suspicious of salesmen like Andrew Faust and realtors who purport to know what is best for us under the transparent guise of calling us cynics, self-centered, and negative.

I hope that small-pox blankets are given out to new owners with every closing. This way the new owners can have something to give to their neighbors as a "nice-to-meet-you" gift. One always must stick to the theme.

xlizellx said:

I hope that small-pox blankets are given out to new owners with every closing. This way the new owners can have something to give to their neighbors as a "nice-to-meet-you" gift. One always must stick to the theme.

Does one have to stick with a theme if it is bizarre, or offensive? I'll try to help, but the Capt seems to be confused on several themes:

a. As individuals, we largely pursue our self interests. As a realtor in East CH, he should target his pitch to hard working, credit worthy people who are looking to buy their first home, yet have limited means and choices. While Eastern Crown Heights does have a number of good qualities, I suspect that painting Utica Ave as nothing but rainbows and unicorns makes a realtor seem dishonest. never treat your customer as if they are dumb.

b. Despite both being latin, Carpe diem is not to be confused with Caveat Emptor . The two sentiments are very different.

CTK- The last time I was at the very busy, "Broadway Junction in ENY" it was far worse than Utica. ...but (as you are aware) the goal isn't to live in the worst neighborhood. As I read the OPs post, he wasn't looking for a place that would give him street cred.