The spending and tax proposals of the Gang of 6
Comments
-
whynot_31 said:
BG wrote: Republicans, which WN is so fond of
BG-
I've voted for a republican only once in my life; The democrats were running an idiot....but stay on the left.
Keep imagining me as your opponent.
WN, don't confuse me disagreeing with you with thinking you're my opponent.
Also, I wasn't saying you're fond of Repubs, I said you're fond of the idea that in general Dems and Repubs share equal responsibility, ineffectiveness, etc etc
Mostly I will defend them against the idea that they're as 'bad' as Republicans, which WN is so fond of.
-
You have done nothing to convince me that Democrats are less culpable.
You have only convinced me you like them to a fault.
-
whynot_31 said:
be careful, he makes his points a lot more coherently than you make yours.I don't doubt that you believe that.
-
whynot_31 said:
You have done nothing to convince me that Democrats are less culpable.You have only convinced me you like them to a fault.
You're very convinced of the equivalence of Dems & Repubs, so it is what it is.
Moving people's opinions is indeed difficult, isn't it?
-
Asserting that one political party is virtuous, while trying to paint the other as jerks may be the most difficult task of all.
It amazes me you bother to try.
-
Hey hey, I didn't say anyone was virtuous.
The past few days I've been arguing:
1. Dems and Repubs do not share equal culpability. In a great many areas there are noticeable differences. (and in some other crucial ones, there are none.)
2. Republicans' use of threatening financial catastrophe is dangerous and the opposite of 'leadership'
3. Republicans' current economic and taxation policies in the face of a depression and bad unemployment are detached from any major accepted economic theory.
4. The Republicans are not serious about our debt, and are only using it as a bludgeon to get what they always want: fewer taxes and fewer social services -
sounds like you wish to carry on business as usual.
...that is no longer an option.
-
No, it most certainly is an option.
There was nothing that said THIS, July 2011, is the one time we have to not raise the debt ceiling.
Rather, we could raise the debt ceiling like we have 89 times in the past, and then have a more constructive, methodical national discussion of how to transition our economy to something more sustainable.
Also, if the new way of being is $4,000,000,000,000 in cuts and no raise in revenue, whether through loopholes, taxes, the super-wealthy, or estate taxes, then yeah, I might choose our unsustainable (according to you) path.
-
your right, lets raise it again without changing course, or even trying to address the systemic problems that got us here.
See you here in a few years? ...when we are more in debt?
-
Correct.
Let's work on austerity when unemployment is a little better, the economy is better, and Americans are better positioned to make sacrifices.
The 2000s would have been good time to do it. But what did we do? Cut services and taxes. Where did that get us, by the way? And where were all these concerned Americans then?
Attempting radical "readjustment" during one of the worst recessions in the last 100 years is a cruel joke.
A big source of our debt is the economic downturn. We have a stagnant economy, companies sitting on piles of cash, and doing no hiring.
Why?
No demand.
Why?
People are unemployed or underemployed.
What can break the cycle?
Gov intervention.
What are you arguing for? The exact opposite of that.
-
You are stating the same thing the left has stated since Feudal period:
"There is never a good time to cut entitlements, it is always a good time to put more taxes on the wealthy"
(yawn) -
That's not actually an argument to counter my points.
I'm open to hearing why now, July 2011, is the right time.
Ready?
Go:
-
Because it will only be harder to do in the future.
Ready? respond
-
I've stated why now is not the time.
We need more govt spending right now (jobs, infrastructure, small business breaks) not less.
When we're out of the recession, hack away my friend.
In terms of debt policy, the recession does not matter to you.
It appears I have hit upon the crux of our differing views.
-
you win.
let's postpone this for the future. I'm sure time will fix everything.
I don't know what I was thinking.
-
I was agreeing to disagree, but do what you wanna do.
I don't see the urgency for July 2011. Urgency that was dead silent for the past decade. Urgency that we simply can't afford to make things a little harder by tackling this in 2013 or 2015 instead, while we give the economy time to recover.
You do see this July 2011 urgency, and I guess it just wasn't worth discussion in years past, whether here or in congress.
It's ok for us to disagree. No need to concede in a hail of sarcasm.
-
I have let you win
It is bad form to gloat.
-
It takes more effort to debate actual points, doesn't it?
And it's frustrating when people don't agree with your POV, isn't it?
Now I get why you write me off as a far-lefty so often: It requires minimal effort on your part.
-
you have won. You are being rude now.
Just take the trophy and go home.
....I, along with others, will run the country while you are studying the words to The Internationale
-
I don't know what that means, but presumably another 'far-lefty' shot?
I guess you can fall back on what you know how to do best.
-
Dude, I'm all about compromise.
I'm just trying to help you blend in with those who aren't.
Trust me, you will need to know this song if you are not going to compromise
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWiY1i4E21k
-
Ah yes, the time-honored "you're a communist" argument.
It had fallen out of favor, but the Tea Party is doing its best to bring it back.
-
you should do more to make sure the label doesn't stick.
...if get better arguments than the bleeding hearts, you will get a bigger audience and people won't confuse you with people who campaign for things that the public (for better or worse) won't currently entertain and pay for, like a "living wage", universal health care, etc.
-
BG, while I have neither the patience nor the passion necessary to follow, much less participate in,this endless economic/philosophical/political debate, for whatever little bit it may be worth, know that I find your arguments far more persuasive than those of the Michele Bachmann acolytes, CTK and WN.
-
whynot_31 said:
you should do more to make sure the label doesn't stick....if get better arguments than the bleeding hearts, you will get a bigger audience and people won't confuse you with people who campaign for things that the public (for better or worse) won't currently entertain and pay for, like a "living wage", universal health care, etc.
I always appreciate your wisdom when it comes to how to appeal to the masses, especially the mythical "center".
It is truly valuable.
However I urge caution in telling me what the public will and won't pay for. Polls provide surprising results sometimes.
I also appreciate the advice on how not to be called a communist. But if someone is irresponsible enough to have the stupid idea that me or Obama is a communist, I'm not sure it really matters.
booklaw- appreciated.
-
Booklaw-
I too wish we lived in a world that supported generous public benefits, but fear we may not be able to provide them until we find a way to collect more tax revenue.I do not think putting ourselves in ever increasing amounts of debt is the way out of the situation though. We need a plan that doesn't involve raising the limit again in four years. By all means, if we can, we should Tax the rich and cut the military before we cut social programs.
Democracy often sucks.
I think Obama is doing a really good job, and is the best president we've had in a long time.
....Obama care and the ARRA will likely be his downfall, but I'd prefer those over military wars that have no plan.
-
PS. I can't imagine voting for Bachman. I'll likely vote for Obama again in 2012, because her social policies are in such conflict with mine.
I secretly hope that by cutting spending America will then realize that it is willing to pay for social programs, and again get the strength needed to tax.
(Shhhhh, dont tell CTK)
-
WN, i agree with the statements in your last two posts... And yes, it will be our little secret!
-
I secretly hope that by cutting spending America will then realize that it is willing to pay for social programs, and again get the strength needed to tax.
I think a lot of people already realize this, or are beginning to. To deal with the debt, polls overwhelmingly show support for raising taxes on the rich rather than cutting social services.
Don't tell Congress that though. It might burst the bubble they live in.
Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
- 40K All Categories
- 27.1K Neighborhoods
- 5.1K Crown Heights/Prospect Lefferts Gardens
- 7.1K Prospect Heights
- 2.3K Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Bed-Stuy
- 8K Park Slope
- 549 Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Bushwick
- 442 Flatbush/Midwood/Ditmas Park
- 657 BoCoCa (Boerum Hill, Cobble Hill, Carroll Gardens)
- 151 Red Hook
- 104 Gowanus
- 304 Bay Ridge/Bensonhurst
- 130 Coney Island, Brighton Beach, Sheepshead Bay
- 270 Brooklyn Heights, DUMBO and Downtown
- 598 Windsor Terrace / Kensington
- 673 Greenwood Heights and Sunset Park
- 749 Brooklyn and Beyond
- 6.3K Stuff
- 86 Brooklyn Back When
- 1.2K Brooklyn Pets
- 257 Brooklyn Kids
- 241 Brooklyn Eats
- 51 Brooklyn Booze
- 3.6K The Lounge / Random Stuff
- 611 Brooklyn Politics
- 122 Brooklyn Sports and Fitness
- 111 Brooklyn Photos
- 339 Site Issues
- 8 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- 6.2K Listings
- 1.1K APARTMENTS and REAL ESTATE
- 1.3K Sales Openings Events
- 2.3K The Classifieds