The spending and tax proposals of the Gang of 6

They're not gonna let us default. Like I said it would be a political suicide bomb. We are still in a recession. To throw the country deeper into it after allowing $5T in stimulus spending and the ballooning of our debt would be stupid. It's a move to get the American people to think about the debt & the fiscal fiasco the federal gov't is in. Even a downgrade in our debt would be disastrous... but if we don't get our fiscal situation under control, even w/raising the debt ceiling that could be inevitable.

whynot_31 said:

I have reached the point where I do not care what the motivation of each party is, I would just like a sensible plan to be created.

Right. I mean, for all the grandstanding the Republicans are doing, ultimately they have raised awareness about the deficit, which IMO is a good thing. I would not be surprised if the average progressive person had no clue what the deficit was before this fiasco. Now people are being forced to confront the realities of how our gov't operates.

To quote Mike Lowry, "shit just got real". And while I don't agree w/the Repubs holding the country hostage, I am glad that they at least got people to tear away from "The Bachlorette" and "Jersey Shore Season 12" just long enough to get wise to the fact that the country is in real trouble.

To be honest, given the gross inaccuracy of polls, and the outright lies of politicians, I think what the majority wants won't really matter.

Many politicians have gone on record to tout their budget plans as "what the people want". What people? A lot of them are full of shit in that regard. I just hope whatever the POLITICIANS want, which is really all that will get put on the plate, will benefit the country.

whynot_31 said:

I think the republicans are more than a little scared of the rapidly organizing Tea Party and the conservative wing of the republican party.

Which Republicans are scared of the Tea Party?

And how has this been demonstrated?

The people who wish to speak will speak in November 2012.

No, policies in this country are decided in a far more cynical and closed-door way than simply winning elections and paying attention to public opinion.

You didn't answer my tea party questions.

...you seem to believe that their are not moderate republicans.

Who do you consider a moderate Republican and which votes give you evidence of that?

But even if whynot were to produce evidence to the contrary, it wouldn't matter. You've already demonstrated that you believe what you believe even if reality says the opposite (i.e.: taxes).

Cool it dude.

This is actually a discussion.

WN made a claim, I would like him to support it.

I agree with CTK in that you'd probably argue the sun comes up in the West if the Democrat party told you it was so.

All of my views being liberal does not mean I like them b/c they're liberal.

It's stupid that you guys give me so little credit.

As if I don't defend my views extensively when asked.

Do I not defend my views when asked?

Do I not offer my reasoning?

That's what I thought.

You use useless horse race analysis.

You're frequently not concerned with my content, you're concerned with how I come off sounding.

It doesn't surprise me in the least. You're frequently unconcerned with actual ideas, and more concerned with popularity contests and who can sound more centrist.

You effectively discredit what I believe b/c I'm too far left and too consistently left, correct?

Electability and validity (logic) of ideas are two very different things.

Agree?

In what way do you think the left is so out of touch with this country? The people who will be voting for Michele Bachmann have no interest in Obama, regardless of how far he distances himself from "Obamacare".

Is it really so out of touch to want everyone in this country to be able to go to the doctor when sick or get surgery when needed? Is it also so out of touch as to want families across this country to have access to affordable family planning services? The people who are backing Bachmann are working very hard to abolish all of that. A strong message that was put out to elect these "freshman" was jobs jobs jobs, but instead I just see women's access to affordable care being taken away in state after state.

Or how about the whole discussion that started in Wisconsin regarding those teachers who shouldn't get paid as much since they don't work full days and "get the summers off"? Is it out of touch with this country to want teachers and their salaries respected?

-Ok, I'm backing out of this conversation now. It's not good for Zygote if I get all worked up and I'm hoping I can just communicate vicariously via Boygabriel like I have so far.

You didn't answer my question:

In a discussion:

Electability and validity (logic) of ideas are two very different things.

Agree?

So validity of ideas is pointless?

All that matters is electability?

"Electability and validity (logic) of ideas are two very different things."

What does this mean, and how does it fit in the context of the discussion?