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Libya was once a working country now its like Afghanistan. thanks merchants of — Brooklynian

Libya was once a working country now its like Afghanistan. thanks merchants of

armchair_warrior
armchair_warrior
edited November -1 in Brooklyn Politics

chaos.

How does nation building feels like when you destroy a perfectly working country with a leader/system you didn't like too much?

I'm sure there is more death now than there was under the old regime.

I'm sure your arms industry thanks you and the military for target practice.

Isn't it enough death and chaos you in Iraq and Afghanistan?

I'm sure the you gonna find Iran as excuse to stay in both when the troop pullback date comes. If that doesn't work you'll pull some China bogeyman card.

come on how many more countries need to be in chaos would your arms industry be happy?

Comments

  • pragmaticguy
    pragmaticguy

    I'm not sure who you're ranting and raving against but the "merchants of chaos" in this case were the Libyan people must like the Egyptians tossed Mubarak. In any event, the fact that NATO has decided to help the rebels or freedom fighters or whatever you want to call them is something that in 100 years or so will determine whether they were right or wrong. Libya is not Iraq where the leaders of the U.S. decided to cajole and urge other countries to join in a war that shouldn't have been started to begin with. Hopefully both of these conflicts will end soon with the ones in Afghanistan and Pakistan not far behind.

  • bohuma
    bohuma

    Personally, I don't and won't support any government that is not democratically elected, which is why I have no faith in the governments elected in New York. The city, state and federal districts are so gerrymandered that it will take a revolution (hopefully political and figurative, and not military) to restore representative government in the empire state. Thank you Tammany Hall.

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    rebels wouldn't this long and many rebels would of died sadly. but it wouldn't be a dysfunctional state as it is. generations would suffer from this. no schools. no jobs besides fighting. death every where. only people benefiting from this is arms merchants.

    how long can you hold someones hands? rebels are not a monolithic group they range from idealist democratic aspiring people to jihadist etc.... they are only holding on because of west bombings and embargoes against the government.

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    Unlike Iraq, Afghanistan, and 99% of the other conflicts the US & NATO get involved in (or start), this one was started by the Libyan people themselves.

    Libya was not a working country. Not by a long shot. They chose to rise up against Khadaffi, and if NATO had not starting bombing, there would have been mass murder of civilians in some of the rebel strongholds.

    Our involvement in Libya makes me very uneasy, partially b/c Obama is purposely circumventing US law. However Libya is an organic uprising, and scholars smarter than me argue that 100,000's would be dead if NATO hadn't intervened via air.

    I strongly urge you to read this. It changed my thinking:

    http://www.juancole.com/2011/03/an-open-letter-to-the-left-on-libya.html

    "Libya 2011 is not like Iraq 2003 in any way." - Juan Cole

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    freedom only works when one fights for it themselves when given to them doesn't work at all.

    Libya shouldn't have any outside help but moral and maybe arms/money but not direct actions like bombings etc....

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    Libya is fighting for it for themselves. They started the uprising, and they continue it.

    Don't conflate our ongoing bombing in Afghanistan and Pakistan with a lot of what NATO did in Libya, which directly prevented mass slaughter.

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    bombing people still bombing people.

    one mans rebel is another mans hero, another man's hero is another terrorist.

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    armchair_warrior said:

    bombing people still bombing people.

    one mans rebel is another mans hero, another man's hero is another terrorist.

    No, it's not. You're generalizing and simplifying in order to hold on to your simplistic isolationist world view.

    There would have been a massacre on a very large scale in rebel-held cities.

    Period. It was imminent. The planes were gassed and ready to go.

    Thousands and thousands of dead men, women and children.

    Unlike anything that ever existed in Iraq or Afghanistan in the past decade.

    It's pretty clear cut.

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    The rebels would of gone no where without the planes doing most of the work for the rebels. without them, they would of been in jail or dead.

    time will tell if i'm right or you're. did the strong man hold the chaos at bay or democracy will flourish.

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    The strong man murdered, raped, and stole, and the citizens of the country chose to rise up.

    They then benefited from American bombing, as well as from the ABSENCE of western troops on the ground, invading & occupying.

    A blissful perfect democracy is not the standard here.

    The standard is:

    throwing off your oppressive dictator and fumbling your own way forward, just like every other country on earth.

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    the rebels were shooting all over the air etc.. very disorganize. anyway point is time will tell.

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    Yup, contrary to what we would prefer, revolutions are ugly, messy and unorganized.

    The Libyan people have chosen this for themselves, and I respect their wishes.

    Immensely.

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