Congestion Pricing ...redux
New governor!
New economy!
New York City!
Yes, once again, we might try to get some more money from drivers and anyone who consumes anything transported by a road!
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2011/08/bridge-tolls-back-on-the-table/#disqus_thread
Comments
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We need to discourage people from driving into Manhattan who don't need to be there.
We need to collect more money from drivers who use the bridges, whether commercial or personal.
We need to invest more in public transit and less in roads.
Vote BoyGabriel in 2012.
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How does one define "need"?
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just change all free bridges to toll bridges problem solved. you know some people drive slightly farther just to use the free bridges.
so when this happens. people would take the closest bridges near them instead of the long way around.
also time to tax those religious institutions and ngo's for money.
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armchair_warrior said:
just change all free bridges to toll bridges problem solved. you know some people drive slightly farther just to use the free bridges.so when this happens. people would take the closest bridges near them instead of the long way around.
Armchair-
that is what is being suggested. -
homeowner said:
How does one define "need"?That is precisely the idea.
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Right...put more tolls on the bridges and by the way, they shouldn't be free to walkers and bikers either. Why not charge them a "use fee" as well. I'm sure over the years the path over the Brooklyn Bridge has been repaired quite a few times. And, while we're at it, let's charge $1 on the Staten Island Ferry. No sense letting those who live there get away easy. And while I'm ranting, money that should have been used to fix roads went to make bike lanes on said roads and bikers don't contribute at all to that but my gasoline taxes do.
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Oh Pragmatic Guy, so many false assumptions, so little time.
How much wear and tear to bicyclists and walkers put on the bridge?
How much congestion do they create?
How much pollution?
And while I'm ranting, money that should have been used to fix roads went to make bike lanes on said roads and bikers don't contribute at all to that but my gasoline taxes do.
You don't know how roads are paid for, do you?
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Actually the greatest amount of wear and tear on bridges and roadways is by trucks. Its not even a close comparison. But, the trucking lobby and retailers constantly fight tolls that represent the equitable share of costs of truck borne goods.
Engineers estimate that a fully loaded truck--a five-axle rig weighing 80,000 pounds, the interstate maximum--causes more damage to a highway than 5,000 cars. Some road planners say that the toll is even higher, that it would take close to 10,000 cars to equal the damage caused by one heavy truck. When the trucks are overloaded, as quite a few of them are, the damage is exponentially worse. Increasing a truck's weight to 90,000 pounds results in a 42 percent increase in road wear. Pavement designed to last 20 years wears out in seven.
And since Red Hook has now been populated by rich folks, looking for fancy pie and organic produce, the days of using ships to transport goods onto the island of Brooklyn have for most purposes come to a close.
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So true, Homeowner.
...not only are we not using ships, but we have also moved away from rail as a method to transport goods.
For quite sometime, those who think about transportation have discussed building a tunnel under the NY harbor that would be used for freight trains.
Until (?) such a tunnel is built, places like Canal Street and the BQE are going to be a mess. After all, to get anything out to Long Island, you basically have to somehow get to the LIE.
http://www.panynj.gov/about/cross-harbor.html
http://www.tstc.org/issues/cross_harbor.php
http://www.drummajorinstitute.org/pdfs/A_Tunnel_to_Economic_Health.pdf
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whynot_31 said:
So true, Homeowner....not only are we not using ships, but we have also moved away from rail as a method to transport goods.
For quite sometime, those who think abo8ut transportation have discussed building a tunnel under the NY harbor that would be used for freight trains.
Until (?) such a tunnel is built, places like Canal Street and the BQE are going to be a mess. Afterall, to get anything out to Long Island, you basically have to take the LIE.
Let's all thank NJ Gov Chris Christie for killing the Hudson River crossing project.
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BG, just a point of clarification. The Hudson River crossing project (ARC) was for passenger rail only into midtown. The freight tunnel proposed by Nadler would be a Jersey to east of the Hudson crossing. The reason for this is that the only rail crossing currently active across the Hudson are the Cross Harbor project listed above and a rail bridge in Albany, NY.
Yep, that's right. If you want to get something from Newark to Brooklyn by train, you have to go to ALBANY!
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Correct, we are discussing the ultra-non-sexy freight tunnel across the harbor, not the could-be-sorta-sexy passenger tunnel to midtown.
It seems only logical that those who consume things presently transported by trucks (i.e. "all of us"), be the ones to pay for said rail tunnel.
Of course, we'd have to pay for the tunnel over a long period of time. If we paid for it too quickly by imposing too great of a tax on trucks, we'd raise prices at local stores so much that people would be encouraged to just drive to NJ haul their crap back by car.
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Which is why if tolls across the East River bridges were to go be used as a dedicated revenue source to pay for the construction of a freight tunnel, I just might be able to get behind them. Instead, they will be put into the general fund of the city and used to pay for more crap that I don't use, or don't agree with.
I hate representative government because it never seems to work out in my favor!
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homeowner said:
BG, just a point of clarification. The Hudson River crossing project (ARC) was for passenger rail only into midtown. The freight tunnel proposed by Nadler would be a Jersey to east of the Hudson crossing. The reason for this is that the only rail crossing currently active across the Hudson are the Cross Harbor project listed above and a rail bridge in Albany, NY.Yep, that's right. If you want to get something from Newark to Brooklyn by train, you have to go to ALBANY!
Ah, noted. I thought the two were related
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His plan would raise all tolls into Manhattan below 60th Street to $13, charge drivers to cross 60th Street from uptown, and impose tolls for the first time on the Brooklyn, Manhattan, Williamsburg, and Ed Koch Queensboro bridges.
The price at other crossings would stay flat or be lowered, to reward drivers who aren’t contributing to Manhattan congestion - reducing tolls at the RFK Triboro, Verrazano Narrows, Throgs Neck and Whitestone Bridges from $13 to $8.
“Lower the tolls on … all the connections between the boroughs other than the central business district,” Schwartz said. “And put tolls up where we need them, at the four East River bridges and the 60th Street screen.”http://gothamist.com/2011/08/09/are_the_pa_toll_hikes_the_first_ste.php
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Boygabriel said:
We need to discourage people from driving into Manhattan who don't need to be there.We need to collect more money from drivers who use the bridges, whether commercial or personal.
We need to invest more in public transit and less in roads.
Vote BoyGabriel in 2012.
Don't citizens in general, pay enough fucking taxes already? I'm no republican, but I'm beginning to see the whole "tax & spend" argument they keep pushing. Why not just restrict the traffic? Doesn't cost a thing.
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Boygabriel said:
Oh Pragmatic Guy, so many false assumptions, so little time.How much wear and tear to bicyclists and walkers put on the bridge?
How much congestion do they create?
How much pollution?
And while I'm ranting, money that should have been used to fix roads went to make bike lanes on said roads and bikers don't contribute at all to that but my gasoline taxes do.
You don't know how roads are paid for, do you?
Not too much wear n' tear, per se. However, a bridge is a breathing object. Outside of vehicular and pedestrian movements, it's effected by winds, water currents, swaying and its own weight. Thus needing maintenance, repairs and construction. All of which keep automobiles and pedestrians, alike, safe & moving.
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I'll pay bridge tolls when Manhattan residents are required to pay a premium for driving their cars in that borough. Not just crossing 60th Street, but owning a car and living below 60th Street as well.
When we bridge and tunnel types are singled out for special tolls, I'm outta here.
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Idlewild said:
Don't citizens in general, pay enough fucking taxes already?Compared to every other developed nation on earth? No. Not even close. And we wonder why our public transportation sucks and our roads are falling apart. But it's all relative, and "we're taxed enough already" is a meaningless catch phrase.
Everyone pays into the federal taxes that get sent back to fund roads and bridges. Tolls for the people who actually drive over the bridges and create congestion in Manhattan is completely reasonable.
booklaw said:
When we bridge and tunnel types are singled out for special tolls, I'm outta here.
I don't understand. You're ok with tolls and congestion pricing, it just has to apply to the whole city, not just bridges?
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I want no part of tolls/congestion pricing... Especially when they discriminate against outer borough residents.
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I'll support such tolls when I feel confident they are going to use the money for things like the rail tunnel.
...I may need a few decades.
Can we still consider ourselves a developed nation?
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whynot_31 said:
Can we still considered ourselves a developed nation?
At our current rate I'd give us about 15 more years.
If we actually elect more Tea Partiers I will significantly drop that number.
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Boygabriel said:
We need to discourage people from driving into Manhattan who don't need to be there.We need to collect more money from drivers who use the bridges, whether commercial or personal.
We need to invest more in public transit and less in roads.
Vote BoyGabriel in 2012.
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So let's pay more taxes and tolls and absolutely ignore the nepotism, corruption and outright thievery going on, which is probably the number one cause of everything costing so much and revenue depletion. I mean why limit cars into the Manhattan via license plate numbers or hours. Why should it work here if it works in places like London, Bogota or Scandinavia? -
+ Singapore
+ Stockholm
+ Rome
+ Durham, England
+ Znojmo, Czech Republic
+ Riga, Latvia
+ Valletta, Maltahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing
I may happen in all of those places because their versions of Albany and the MBTA is more functional and/or trusted.
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Idlewild said:
which is probably the number one cause of everything costing so much and revenue depletion.
Assumptions are ever so easy.
But hey, I guess that's what Republicans get elected on.
whynot_31 said:
I may happen in all of those places because their versions of Albany and the MBTA is more functional and/or trusted.
Their versions of Albany are functional, period?
Their version of legislative branches, whether local or national, are functional, period?
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whynot wrote: may happen in all of those places because their versions of Albany and the MBTA is more functional and/or trusted.
No place is utopia
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here, let me help
which is probably the number one cause of everything costing so much and revenue depletion.
This is what is known as a massive assumption.
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Boygabriel said:
here, let me helpwhich is probably the number one cause of everything costing so much and revenue depletion.
This is what is known as a massive assumption.
So I'm a republican who assumes, because I bring up issues, which btw, is pretty much common knowledge to any NYC/NYS resident who can see, hear or smell, about how this city and state are run?
Howdy, Stranger!
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