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Questions about Lesbian Gentrification of Park Slope? — Brooklynian

Questions about Lesbian Gentrification of Park Slope?

csenn
csenn
edited November -1 in Park Slope

I'm a current Master Thesis student and doing a paper on lesbian gentrification on Park Slope. What does everyone think about the community of lesbians in Park Slope? Does it seem like they are leaving the area or coming into the area? And what seems to be the age of the gentrifying lesbians approx?

Where would be some good areas for me to delve into the lesbian culture besides Ginger's bar?

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Comments

  • idlewild
    idlewild

    Does one even notice gentrifiers if they're lesbians? I would think gays & lesbians, no matter what their clique, aren't even given a second thought. Gentrifiers and hipsters, however, are other stories. And if gay & lesbians are perceived as part of those communities, I imagine they're either disdained or approved of as gentrifiers or hipsters. Am I the only one who has this opinion?

    Lesbians, btw, have been a part of Park Slope life since I can remember. And that was back in 1975. Ginger's bar is relatively late to the game. I think the now defunct Iron Horse Pub may have been a gay & lesbian hangout for a few years back in the day.

  • el syd
    el syd

    I've noticed a few lesbian places opening up in Prospect Heights. Perhaps there is a lesbian migration going on?

  • homeowner
    homeowner

    CSenn, I think you're about 30 years too late. Lesbians gentrified PS years ago. Good luck on the thesis though.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    Seriously, try Crown Heights. The Nostrand area might be able to help you out.

    Actually, when I think about it, nevermind.

    Lesbians have lived throughout the city since before Columbus "discovered" America.

  • csenn
    csenn

    I know they gentrified 30 years ago, my primary thesis question is on the impact of their gentrification and if, due to higher rent prices, the lesbian community is moving out to nearby neighborhoods?

    thanks for your replies.

  • csenn
    csenn

    And more specifically, why did lesbians pick Park Slope to gentrify ?

  • stacey
    stacey

    CSeen I think you might want to also talk to residents of Vinegar Hill - this is where I heard many gay women from PS moved to when priced out. (This has been in the past couple years)

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    lesbians seem to have migrated towards prospect heights and sunset park.

  • idlewild
    idlewild

    I imagine, like most people, if lesbians have a nice cash flow and want to live in Park Slope, they will. If not, but have some cash on hand, they head east to Prospect Height and Crown Heights and anywhere else that's inexpensive, but not a shooting gallery. I also imagine lesbians, along with gays and straights, chose Park Slope in hordes because brownstones and rentals were going for cheap. This in turn raised standard-of- living prices, which in turn priced out a lot of the old guard. Just for clarification on my part, my old man was in the Park Slope real estate game. And I certainly remember a slew of lesbian real estate brokers and agents. So, I imagine they promoted gentrification (in general) as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is: Aside from the usual asshole/s who would harass lesbians, no distinctions, good or bad, were made among them from the rest of the community. They affected prices, trends and living standards like every other gentrifier. Perhaps an actual lesbian who has lived in the Slope for awhile wants to chime in?

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    Idlewilde-

    I think you are right.

    For example, the other day I saw a lesbian selecting produce at the green market, and she was doing it and everything else in almost the same way I was.

    Which is cool, because I'm a straight male.

    :)

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    some lesbians have good taste in women :p others not so much just like everyone else lol.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    The OP would have an easier job if the Lesbians had unique preferences in what they seek in a neighborhood. ....or all attended a meeting in which they received instructions as to what neighborhood they would move to next.

    The mtg would be led by a lesbian that everyone agreed with and who was infallible.

  • csenn
    csenn

    Idlewild, thanks for your input, I am currently looking into real estate developers that rented out property to lesbians/ and or were lesbians, do you know any of the companies ?

  • csenn
    csenn

    I'm looking more into the lesbian community as a whole and comparing and contrasting the difference in the lesbian cultures of pre-gentrification in the 70's and the gentrification process right now, seeing if they are still occupying the brownstones that they gentrified or have moved out.

  • csenn
    csenn

    Are there more lesbian owned shops now than there were in the gentrification phase of the 60s and 70s?

    I am trying to counter Tamar Rothenburg's thesis from this article which has been summarized:

    http://pleasureparadigms.blogspot.com/2010/11/gentrification-of-park-slope.html

  • slopeduder
    slopeduder

    Its too expensive here now. Like others have said, they have mostly moved out. Sunset park, Bushwick, etc. When I first moved here it was not uncommon to see girls walking on the sidewalk holding hands. I can't remember the last time I've seen that. The only thing reminding me that this used to be a haven for lesbians is Ginger's bar on 5th and Im not sure who goes in there its always empty when I go past.

  • csenn
    csenn

    Thanks so much for your comments. They are really helping.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    Let me know if you find a super lesbian that leads a massive mtg.

    Tell her I want to know how I could get a similar position that gets to control straight males.

  • csenn
    csenn

    just to give everyone a little bit of background this is my main focus.

    I attend Fordham University and have started to write my Thesis Paper on The History of Lesbian Gentrification in Park Slope. My idea for this thesis paper formed when I moved here with my girlfriend and realized that I myself was a lesbian gentrifier to the Park Slope area. The current literature I have read suggests that lesbians are moving out of Park Slope and that the area has become in essence "less of a lesbian community." I plan to counter attack these claims with my thesis paper.

    There has been little academic research done on this topic since 1995 when Tamar Rothenburg wrote her gentrification paper on lesbian gentrification of Park Slope. I want my thesis paper to really highlight and shed new information on the gentrification process of lesbians in Park Slope. More specifically, the history, the class structure, the ages, and the current community of lesbians living in Park Slope.

    Some of my current research questions include:

    1) Who were the first pioneer lesbian gentrifiers in the Park Slope area?

    2) Has lesbian gentrification been positive or negative in the Park Slope area?

    3) Are high rent prices forcing lesbians out of the Park Slope area and into neighborhoods surrounding Park Slope that have cheaper rent prices?

    4) Are the lesbians leaving Park Slope mainly older or younger or a mix of both?

    5) Has there been an influx of lesbian owned shops or establishments since Rothenburg did her study in 1995?

    6) What does the future of lesbian gentrification look like for the community of Park Slope?

    This paper will take me the better part of a year and a half to complete and I would eventually like to have it published in an academic journal.

    My question for you is if you have information on the community of lesbians in the Park Slope area going on right now? Are they leaving or staying? Is this lesbian community still flourishing as much as it was when the first primary gentrifiers came to the area? Also, do you have any suggestions as to where I could immerse myself within the community to find out more about the goings on of the lesbian community?

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    I am telling you, if they have a leader, she is gonna be the best place to start.

  • homeowner
    homeowner

    Whynot, cut the girl some slack, she's gonna need all the encouragement she can get to get this paper done

  • witch-king
    witch-king

    I think some fail to understand is that a thesis involves asking a question that requires research as opposed to assuming a ready-made answer. The question she's asking is no more strange than asking why certain immigrant ethnic groups congregated in specific areas of NYC in the late 19th century.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    ^^ I totally agree ^^^

    Homeowner-

    I think my advice has been completely on target, but I suppose she could also try talking to the folks who organize the Pride Parade on 5th avenue, or the various gay and lesbian organizations in the Slope.

    MAs in Sociology and Social Work are totally doable, so I am confident she will do fine.

  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior

    not a developer :p. as a landlord, in my small prospect heights building, always had some lesbians living there. They have moved in and out during the past 5 or 6 years, currently there are a married couple and a single girl in the building that are openly lesbians.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    As Witch king alludes, migrations are typically analyzed in terms of "pushes and pulls".

    We are now faced with the question "does Armchair the landlord function as a pull for lesbians, and if so, why?"

  • whyfi
    whyfi

    CSenn said:

    just to give everyone a little bit of background this is my main focus.

    I attend Fordham University and have started to write my Thesis Paper on The History of Lesbian Gentrification in Park Slope. My idea for this thesis paper formed when I moved here with my girlfriend and realized that I myself was a lesbian gentrifier to the Park Slope area.

    Best of luck, but I stopped reading right here, as you seem to be working under some false notions. How is it that you're a gentrifier of a neighborhood that needs no gentrification?

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    I'm sure her move to PS could be looked at using the same push and pull analysis we could apply to Armchair's lesbians.

    Given fiscal and time constraints, we should just take a very small sample then extrapolate thier answers to explain the migratory behavior of all lesbians.

    What could go wrong?

  • booklaw
    booklaw

    WhyNot, one mod has already asked you to cut the newbie some slack. This is your second request. Next comes a timeout.

  • idlewild
    idlewild

    CSenn said:

    Idlewild, thanks for your input, I am currently looking into real estate developers that rented out property to lesbians/ and or were lesbians, do you know any of the companies ?

    I imagine every real estate office in who had Park Slope listings rented apartments or acted as go-betweens for house sales to and fro lesbians. As far as lesbian owned businesses go, I haven't a clue. I've never asked owners what their born preference is. And I have learned you cannot judge a book by its cover. It sounds like you're writing a thesis on contributions and possibly economic persecution/consequence of gentrifying lesbians, both at the same time. I can only give you my very strong opinion that all real estate & business speculators, as well as the influx and apparently flight of Park Slope residents shared (and share) the rewards and consequences of gentrification. Whatever happened to Mr. & Mrs. Hetero because of money, most likely happened to lesbians in the same economic situation.

  • salix
    salix

    I attend Fordham University and have started to write my Thesis Paper on The History of Lesbian Gentrification in Park Slope. My idea for this thesis paper formed when I moved here with my girlfriend and realized that I myself was a lesbian gentrifier to the Park Slope area. The current literature I have read suggests that lesbians are moving out of Park Slope and that the area has become in essence "less of a lesbian community." I plan to counter attack these claims with my thesis paper.

    Some of my current research questions include:

    1) Who were the first pioneer lesbian gentrifiers in the Park Slope area?

    2) Has lesbian gentrification been positive or negative in the Park Slope area?

    3) Are high rent prices forcing lesbians out of the Park Slope area and into neighborhoods surrounding Park Slope that have cheaper rent prices?

    4) Are the lesbians leaving Park Slope mainly older or younger or a mix of both?

    5) Has there been an influx of lesbian owned shops or establishments since Rothenburg did her study in 1995?

    6) What does the future of lesbian gentrification look like for the community of Park Slope?

    Having known the Slope & its inhabitants for over 30 years it stikes me that you are about a generation (or two?) late with some of the questions. Census data carefully parsed may bring some information as to the population of the Slope 30 years ago. In the 70s & early 80s it was a neighborhood of old buildings, lots of room and a population that was not teribly fussy about who their neighbors were (I had a cousin in real estate & could tell you stories...). Proximity to mass transit (aka jobs & school in Manhattan)& a big park were additional factors that made the area appealing to those who were not into the white-picket-fence-in-the-suburbs scene. But to treat sexual orientation in 1975 as the same signifier it may be now is a methodological error. You may want to backup & question how one can separate lesbian gentrifiers from lesbian poor students/entry level workers. If you can clearly make that distinction in say 1981, then you might have a chance at finding that distinction in 2011. Good luck!

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