Protesters on Wall Street. Capitalism quakes in fear?

Can I donate to the ACLU instead?

Doesn't that make more sense than an early AM standoff with the police, wherein the police may have the legal right to do what they are doing?

This is a long term struggle, I continue to believe those fighting short term battles with no goals or direction are misguided. I will let the lawyers decide whether they have a case and need my support.

I am confident there will be enough media on scene to document the event for the lawyers.

As hoped, everyone is slowly getting smarter!

In advance of being notified "we are going to clean this park and then not let you have tarps or be on the ground", the protesters cleaned the park themselves.

This will allowed all sides (Brookfield, the police, the general public, the protesters) to step backward while calling the other "wusses", and resume their prior antics.

I hope everyone still has an interest in this story, because there is supposed to be more fun tomorrow!

11AM - MOVE YOUR MONEY MARCH TO CHASE

From Zucotti to Chase

We will then march to student meet up at Wash. Sq. Park

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=281685291856534

---moveyourmoneyproject.org---

12PM - ANTI-WAR MARCH AND TEACH-IN

Wall Street And Broadway

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=207384415996685

12PM - MASS STUDENT GENERAL ASSEMBLY

Washington Square Park -

Student meet up and student loan lender bank action

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=211491108917148

3:30PM - ENVIRONMENTAL ACTION AGAINST MOUNTAIN TOP REMOVAL

New York Public Library Main Entrance

42 and 5th avenue

4PM - OCCU-PIE TIMES SQUARE RECRUITMENT CENTER

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=213236302076072

5PM - TAKE TIME SQUARE CONVERGENCE/ OCCUPATION PARTY

http://www.theoccupationparty.com/

&

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=159911157436152

PROMO VIDEO FOR TIMES SQUARE EVENT

I'm glad that some of tomorrow's events are issue based, and include teach-ins.

If "Occupy" gets its act together, they could become a broad based political action group like ACORN was.

I hope they soon find and embrace articulate leaders that understand the larger context of our country's problems and propose workable solutions. Come on OWS, you can do it! You can do more than sleep outside and say "this sucks".

The wages, wealth, and standard of living of the working class, and low-middle classes of Americans have remained pretty stagnant since something like 1975. Over the last 10 years, this phenomena has affected the middle, and upper middle class too.

Are people just now becoming aware of this?

Are people just now talking about this?

If you answer "yes", I think you have been watching too much media that is focused on "today's news".

The real mess/dialogue/protests will come if Washington does not increase taxes on the rich, and the federal government goes into austerity.

Then, we will be like the rest of the world.

Regardless of where they get their information, or whether they get any at all, I think most people are aware their wages, wealth, and standard of living have gone down over the last twenty years or so.

They are also likely aware that the rich have gotten richer.

Like the protesters, many do not know what (if anything) they would like to do about the situation. Unless they get their acts together, they also lack the means to get anything done.

I suspect that it will take Austerity before people really get upset. Even then, I doubt they will understand the larger global forces or speak with a unified voice.

???

I have always hoped they get their acts together.

After some missteps, they are slowing achieving this. They are:

- figuring things out

- silencing the revolutionaries

- getting good advice

- joining existing campaigns.

I'm told some of them came to the HSC Austerity Breakfast, and were well behaved:

Although OWS is going slower than I want it to, and with more missteps, it is happening exactly as I want.

Myself and others will continue to give OWS the mocking and advice they need, and I hope they will not self-destruct before they can implement it.

Being condescended to and mocked is often an essential part of making potential malcontents grow-up and participate in mitigating the problems.

I have made it no secret that want the group to grow up and leave their juvenile antics and members behind, as quickly as possible.

Jimmy-

There are idiots on all sides of the political spectrum, and such people are attracted to demonstrations to forward their own goals. For example, by holding a sign that says "I hate xyz (insert racial, religious, sexual orientation group)" or "Kill the cops", the individual may hope that impressionable people follow his/her advice because s/he genuinely hates the police or the group of people.

In other instances, attendees may have an agenda beyond what is stated on their sign; they wish for impressionable people (viewers, attendees) to believe that the crowd is hate filled people. They have figured out that "hating" has a damaging stigma attached to it, and sometimes act as if they "hate" a group of people even though they merely wish to taint image of the crowd in the eyes of the media or viewers.

While it is difficult for growing movements (such as the Tea Party and "Occupy") to eliminate such people from their events, steps can be taken to mitigate their impact.

For example, by stating goals, (In the case of Occupy, they might choose "Reform the Tax Code to be more progressive") an event is assumed to be FOR something and it is more difficult for the media or attendees to say the event is about something else (racial hatred, conflict with the police, etc).

Appointing an articulate leader also allows movements to effectively dismiss people. For example, the Tea Party now has chapter heads so it can distance itself from idiots who talk to the media while carrying a "Don't Tread on Me" flag.

If the Occupy Party is to survive, it will quickly get chapter heads so it can distance itself from idiots who talk to the media while carrying a "I am the 99%" poster.

P.S. The Occupy group also seems to be having a lot of trouble grasping the legally established limits on Freedom of Speech and Assembly that are summarized in this easy to read document: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/faq/frequently-asked-questions-assembly

whynot wrote: P.S. The Occupy group also seems to be having a lot of trouble grasping the legally established limits on Freedom of Speech and Assembly that are summarized in this easy to read document:

BG wrote: There are alternate explanations. Such as: sometimes limits on free speech need to be ignored. Especially when situations become urgent and doing so doesn't threaten anyone's health or safety.

I agree, there are a lot of laws on the books that seem very petty. There are also obscure laws that a demonstrator can unwittingly break by just trying to express themselves.

Freedom of assembly and speech is an area of the law that is constantly debated, and the laws place the police, mayor and public in tough roles. If they do not enforce such laws for groups that are merely harmless and clueless, they lose the ability to enforce these laws on groups that are angry and more destructive.

If the country implements austerity measures over the next decade, I think we will get a lot more demonstrations. Some will be violent and idiotic, others will be thoughtful and policy based.

We will need to do our best to enforce the laws evenly on all groups. An article is yesterday's NYT touched on a few of the issues, albeit only slightly

I am pleased that Friday's attempt (guise?) to clean the park did not turn into something resembling the Battle in Seattle.

...as groups, both the police and protesters were pretty well behaved.

These laws on assembly and speech are not going away anytime soon, and I would hate for us to be in a position where we are later accused of disparate treatment because we earlier chose to not enforce them on clueless kids.

So far, the kids have just been arrested on pretty minor charges (disorderly conduct, resisting arrest, interference with the police, etc). If one's goal is merely civil disobedience, it is important that we give them the arrest they seek for a minor offense, that way they do not resort to committing a larger offense merely to get arrested and make their statement.

For the most part, those arrested have been released within 24 hours. If it is their first arrest, this period allows them to decide whether the experience is one they wish to repeat.

Hopefully those that make getting arrested a habit will realize that they face potentially increased consequences.

I wonder if apple will ever invent a phone that is so desired that people will sleep outside for 4 weeks to get it.

Maybe.

But I bet even more havoc than that would result simply from an un-policed line.

Apple could create its own version of the stampedes at Walmart.

People love crap.

And now, a word from Barney Frank

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?bmb=1&desktop_uri=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OKGQBOSNL4&gl=US&v=_OKGQBOSNL4