Protesters on Wall Street. Capitalism quakes in fear?

So much iron in my meal today! hmm one group needs more than the other, yet the other is bitching lol.

Mr. Gaffney is hardly an unusual presence in the Occupy demonstrations across the country these days. From Los Angeles to Wall Street, from Denver to Boston, homeless men and women have joined the protesters in large numbers, or at least have settled in beside them for the night. While the economic deprivation they suffer might symbolize the grievance at the heart of this protest, they have come less for the cause than for what they almost invariably describe as an easier existence. There is food, as well as bathrooms, safety, company and lots of activity to allow them to pass away their days.

“When the tents went up, everybody moved in,” Douglas Marra, a homeless person in Denver, said. “They knew they could get stuff for free.”

But their presence is posing a mounting quandary for protesters and the authorities, and divisions have arisen among protesters across the country about how much, if at all, to embrace the interlopers. The rising number of homeless, many of them suffering from mental disorders, has made it easier for Occupy’s opponents to belittle the movement as vagrant and lawless and has raised the pressure on municipal authorities to crack down.

In Atlanta on Saturday, demonstrators who had been thrown out of Woodruff Park by the police moved into upper floors of the Peachtree-Pine homeless shelter in a full-scale embrace of the cause of the 600 residents who live below them. It gave the demonstration more of a political focus, and not incidentally expanded its size.

“The homeless bring numbers,” said Alex Smith Jr., 50, a former repairman who lives at the shelter and joined the protests. “They bring a voice.”

But in places like Nashville, New York, Los Angeles and Oakland, Calif., protesters talk about feeling unsafe because of the presence of homeless people.

“There are a lot of them here that have mental problems and that need help. They are in the wrong place,” said Jessica Anderson, 22, who is herself homeless, sitting with friends on a tarp at the Los Angeles site. “They have been creating more problems. There was one guy who showed up last night and he would not shut up: Saying all kinds of crazy stuff all night.”

In Nashville, organizers described the homeless as more of a detriment to the movement than an asset. “This is keeping people away: It distracts a lot of energy away from the issues we’re fighting for when we’re just managing life in the camp,” said Bob Titley 56, one of the participants in Occupy Nashville. “A lot of women felt unsafe camping out at night. It discourages a lot of people from participating.”

The influx of homeless has been continuing at a steady pace, even as the overall populations of some of the demonstrations have faded under the pressures of dropping temperatures, the passage of time and increasingly aggressive police tactics. Some organizers estimated that as many as 30 percent of the people camping out in some cities were chronically homeless, a figure that seems impossible to verify.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/01/us/dissenting-or-seeking-shelter-homeless-stake-a-claim-at-protests.html?_r=1&hp&gwh=521FA269F16C725EBF506EC CD02D5E2F

Are you saying the liberal media is trying to undermined the movement??????

whynot_31 said:

Although the media loves to hate OWS, I've gotta side with AW on this one.

Where is it written that a group of people can not have a good cause, AND be complete flakes?

Where is it written that we have to support a movement that has unrealistic goals and means?

Why do we have to feel sorry for "victims of the media" who have been repeatedly given the advice and means to protect themselves?

...we merely have the obligation to let them express themselves as allowed by law.

Wow, nothing you wrote has anything to do with any point I made.

That's impressive.

there been many sexual assaults reported in many ows around the world. same goes for homeless problem. some homeless with mental problems are causing fights etc...

Does this guy want to replace capitalism with communism where we know milk and honey and brotherhood will flow. plus only thing they did was to hurt the working class man in the area who works at the port.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57317465/occupy-protests-go-from-peace-to-chaos/

One of the protest leaders, Boots Riley, touted the day as a success, saying "we put together an ideological principle that the mainstream media wouldn't talk about two months ago."

His comments came before a group of demonstrators moved to break into the Travelers Aid building in order to, as some shouting protesters put it, "reclaim the building for the people."

Riley, whose anti-capitalist views are well-documented, considered the port shut down particularly significant for organizers who targeted it in an effort to stop the "flow of capital." The port sends goods primarily to Asia, including wine as well as rice, fruits and nuts, and handles imported electronics, apparel and manufacturing equipment, mostly from Asia, as well as cars and parts from Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai. An accounting of the financial toll from the shutdown was not immediately available.

The potential for the chaos that ultimately erupted was not something Riley wanted to even consider.

"If they do that after all this ..." He paused, then added, "They're smarter than that."

But the peace that abided throughout the day, did not last into the night.

Occupy protesters voicing anger over a budget trim that forced the closure of a homeless aid program converged on the empty building where it had been housed. They blocked off city streets with dumpsters and other large trash bins, starting bonfires that leapt 15-feet in the air.

City officials released a statement describing the spasm of unrest.

"Oakland Police responded to a late night call that protesters had broken into and occupied a downtown building and set several simultaneous fires," the statement read. "The protesters began hurling rocks, explosives, bottles, and flaming objects at responding officers. Several private and municipal buildings sustained heavy vandalism. Dozens of protesters wielding shields were surrounded and arrested."

Protesters reported running from several rounds of tear gas and bright flashes and deafening pops that some thought were caused by "flash bang" grenades. Fire crews arrived and suppressed the flames.

whynot_31 said:

I am mocking them for how long it is taking them to get their acts together, and support policies.

...I don't hear anyone whining.

Just like I mock anyone who thinks they were making progress some other way besides massive public protest and anger.

Oh well, the situation continues on.

I hope you find someone who expects progress from them or anyone else.

I hope you find someone in the lower 50% who thinks their life was getting any better under current strategies.

Everyone I know is based in reality. Although we have a preference for demonstrations that make a little bit of an impact, we don't expect anything to actually change.

Everyone I know knows that status quo doesn't equal reality. We have a preference for new approaches to an entrenched system.

We just watch the dreamers, and think to ourselves "yea, that would be nice, but it will never happen".

We just watch the cynical people who sit at home and we think to ourselves, "yeah, privilege sure is nice."

I'm glad I have my privilege. I'm more concerned for the millions who weren't born so lucky.

Then we smile, and return to whatever task we have found that results in a paycheck.

Then I shake my head, return to my job with a paycheck, and wonder how much longer our system can last in its current state.

If these jerks really want to change something occupied congress and the white house and see how far they'll go and also use some violence, instead of ports and wall street, where people actually get things done and make money.

don't blame the guys on the wall street they just play the game, the people in dc on the other hand makes the rules go there to make a real difference. instead of going after weak and soft targets.

they probably know they don't want real change, they just like the pretense of change, like the current president. change is something you can believe in with action not perceptual campaigns.

whynot_31 said:

I give the current system another 15 years.

But I don't think it will be the unemployed, oppressed left that brings it down.

Instead, I think it will be a tax rebellion by the employed right.

...the rich will have no trouble:

They will hire plenty of people to defend them, and smile from a distant gated community, just as they always have.

Assuming that the status quo will go on indefinitely, with increasing hardship on the other 90% (realistically the other 70-80%) seems very short-sighted to me.

OWS support across the country, and the polls showing increasing support for it, lead me to feel even more strongly about this belief.

whynot_31 said:

BG-

Here's the most recent report from Demos on how hard the world is for people between 18 and 34 (OWS's prime demographic).

http://www.demos.org/state-of-young-america

Spoiler alert: It is much harder than in prior generations.

Second Spoiler: No one listens to those most affected by the changing economy, because they are not perceived as being powerful.

OWS may be disproportionately 18-34 year olds, but it would be a large mistake to say they represent a dramatic majority. Their disproportion becomes even less when it comes to people who generally support the movement, donate money, call their congresscritters, and otherwise lend support now and in the future, for better organized endeavors (which is what they're working on now. A sustainable agenda going forward, beyond park sitting.)

Tell me whatever you want about how easy 20 year olds have it right now, it's largely missing the big picture of where we are, where we've been, and where we're going.

Our current track is unsustainable. I don't care how many college graduates could get jobs at call centers in the exurbs or what have you.

It's simply a matter of how long the top 10% or so (and corporations, who's agendas are frequently identical) can keep the other 90% distracted, divided, or silenced.

Anger is growing, not subsiding.

wow, do I really care?