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Protesters on Wall Street. Capitalism quakes in fear? - Page 13 — Brooklynian

Protesters on Wall Street. Capitalism quakes in fear?

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  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    I have consistently offered in person and online.

    The Brooklyn version appears to have a much better leadership and goals, BTW.

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    whynot_31 said:

    You assume I have not?

    what was your experience during the general assembly?

    You've attended working groups?

    whynot_31 said:

    I have consistently offered in person and online.

    It takes a while to gain trust and authority. They can't just have someone walk off the street and start giving advice.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    I found GA to be completely retarded, and filled with hopeless idealists who believed in consensus.

    I believe in getting things done more than absolute democracy, but there were a few people who seemed interested in joining more organized organizations, like WFP or HSC.

    I hope they adapt the methods of WFP and HSC and/or leave OWS. Their reps are far more patient than I, and paid to engage people who are clueless and/or angry in an effort to shape thier feelings into productive action.

    I have heard the WFP folks are similarly frustrated.

    Not all of the participants believe we have to go forward in an intelligent manner, and they are the bane of the left.

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    Wouldn't that be the working groups?

    As I understand it, the GA is just for public speaking, basically.

    But the working groups are organized by goals or specialty, and that is where the real planning and progress will happen.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    Yes, the one in Brooklyn that I mention above shows more hope.

    It appears to consist of people who don't believe real social change comes about thru occupying a park, or fighting the police. (don't tell the public, but it is largely WFP members who are trying to recruit)

    We all seek the same goals. Life is all about affiliating with people who go about trying to achieve them in thought out ways.

  • boygabriel
    boygabriel

    You can't judge OWS Manhattan without including the working groups who are far more focused and presumably effective in the long term.

  • tateinbk
    tateinbk

    As I understand it, the GA is just for public speaking, basically

    From talking to someone who is down there every day, any policy that the OWS group wants to say is one of theirs or any theory espoused has to go through GA. If one of the working groups requires something I believe it has to go through GA to be approved before the next working group deals with it.

    For example, even if Comfort wants to spend $10,000 on really good sleeping bags, they have to bring that proposal to GA before they can go to Finance.

    From what I have discussed and gathered, it seems there has been a sort of learning curve among a number of people. Those who want the donated money handled well are now starting to see that having finance experts on the Finance team makes a certain amount of sense. Initially it seemed good to have people from all walks of life in different working groups. Every person's equal and all that. Now that people have been bandying about big numbers of money that may have been donated, there are some who wonder if the anarchists, freegans, and crusties should really be involved in the discussion.

    There are others who are beginning to become frustrated with consensus and that want to do as BG says and use GA for public speaking and let the working groups make some choices on their own. My feeling is that it is very hard for full ideas to come to fruition with the GA model. But the people down there who might have started off full of blind optimism are starting to clue into how a big group works and why we have the system of government that we do.

    From my very limited perspective, it appears that even those who are having realizations on this matter are not simply giving up. Even those who are frustrated with GA are still down there. I will be very interested to see how it all evolves, and not from a sarcastic standpoint.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    Thanks Tate, that is my impression as well.

    Basically, OWS Manhattan is learning why consensus is not used: It does not work. They are learning that a representative democracy is inherently exclusionary and status based, but that it can actually get something done.

    I see the OWS groups throughout the country as being completely unaffiliated with each other, and suspect that they will feel the need to distance themselves from the reputations of other cities as their own identities develop. Some will even embrace articulate leaders :)

    ...I have seen nothing from any of the Manhattan working groups that leads me to believe that they are able to focus, or make intelligent statements.

    Suffice it to say, when they are ready for me, I will likely be ready for them. Until then, I'll hang out with folks and organizations who are already at a different stage in their development.

    I feel no desire to spend time with sophomoric sophomores, but would welcome them if they grew up and joined us. Folks like me will wait with open arms.

  • tateinbk
    tateinbk

    http://gawker.com/5861169/

    Does anyone have any bets on how long this lasts what what the odds are of it going until Monday morning?

    Besides my desire to go into work, is anyone really evil enough to deserve a 24 hour drum circle outside their home?

    I also imagine the Iraqi embassy wouldn't be too jazzed to have that across the street from them.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    A NYC union recently had a demonstration in which they were noisy outside someone's house for a few days (sorry, I forget which union or which house), so a precedence has been set.

    I would like everyone to be treated similarly, so I hope OWS gets similar privileges.

    If nothing else, such demonstrations may help clarify what is allowed in public spaces.

    I'd really hate for a neo-Nazi group to successfully sue NYC because their rights to demonstrate were violated, because they were only able to beat drums for 8 hours outside of a NYC mayors house, because OWS got to do it for a week.

  • tateinbk
    tateinbk

    Technically 79th street seems to be blocked off to pedestrians altogether, but they are gathered (penned-in) near the park on 5th.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    I suspect the area is being referred to as a free speech zone.

    I hope if a group of people ever gets pissed at me, the police put them in an area that will not disturb me and my neighbors. I would hate for only powerful people to have this privilege.

    Of course, if I was a protester, I would want to be right in the face of my opponent and would probably not care about disturbing his/her neighbors if I viewed them as also being XYZ.

    In theory XYZ could be some social class. Or, some religion. Race? Political affiliation? Veteran status? Sexual orientation......etc. Fun stuff, isn't it?

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