NYPD traffic priorities: Protecting you from the deadly bike menace

As far as pedestrians getting killed by cars and the drivers not being convicted, it seems simple to me... peds. break the laws. I can't even remember the last time I came to an intersection where a ped. wasn't breaking the law.

I was taught to cross with the light and to look BOTH ways b4 crossing as a kid. If I choose to cross against the light or out of the cross walk (illegally) I'm taking my life into my legs so to speak.

I was an avid biker years back (downhill and city riding) I can't imagine riding a bike in NYC as an adult. NO ONE on the road follows the rules, cars, cyclists, or peds. WHY would you with positively knowing that as fact battle with a two ton missile?

Also... It should be illegal to place children on bikes or in the tow behind carts on NYS roadways. It's child abuse.

Booklaw, here are some statistics to back up your impression re: illegal immigrants:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/10/us/10license.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/us/14sfcheck.html?pagewanted=all

Here are stats galore re: the rate of accidents among unlicensed drivers, including people with suspended lics

http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/UnlicensedToKillResearchUpdate.pdf

BTW, If the police do ever begin a traffic crackdown, I look forward to the lawsuit that accuses them of civil liberty violations because they are stopping people in areas where drivers are shown to be less likely to have licenses.

If a cop does something, s/he is screwed.

If a cop does nothing, s/he is screwed.

I am so glad I am not a cop, and just get to watch the silliness.

And then there is this:

On the same day that the City Council blasted the NYPD for the way it handles investigations into pedestrians and cyclists who are hit by motorists, Brooklyn resident Jacob Stevens learned that the Kings County District Attorney would not press criminal charges against the driver who killed his wife back in June

Sadly, you drew attention away from what is a good cause (i.e. What you perceive is a failure to hold drivers accountable for their actions), by dismissing a group of people who are also concerned about road safety (i.e. Those who don't want illegal immigrants to have licenses).

I have yet to see how I misinterpreted your post. If people looks at the data and conclude that illegal immigrants should not be eligible for licenses, this does not make them bigoted. It does not make the legislation bigoted.

Those opposed to illegal immigrants having licenses could believe that, even with the best drivers ed courses in the world, we will be unable to hold illegal immigrants accountable for their actions and -hence- the mere act of them driving places too much of a burden on the rest of us, and -thus- when an illegal immigrant drives a vehicle it should be an offense.

Such a belief would does not meet my standard of "bigotry", and I believe that using such loaded labels to describe someone with rational, articulate views that happen to oppose the licensing of immigrants will not change their views. I fear that your tactics may even risk alienating people who may be willing to support licenses for illegal immigrants, and/or increased enforcement.

When advocates for illegal immigrants call those opposed to their positions "bigots", they marginalize themselves as well those they purport to represent.

They pay the consequence of using lazy, ineffective techniques. If you are going to obtain the privilege of driving for illegal immigrants, you'll need to do better.

homeowner said:

a significant number of NYC drivers have suspended or no license at all.

Just curious where you got this from? I'd be really surprised if it were true since it would represent a fairly significant revenue stream if the cops were simply to pull over folks, run their id's and ticket/impound folks in violation. I can't see the city passing up that kind of low hanging fruit if it exists.

Homeowner-

This may be a situation in which there a lot of unlicensed drivers, yet they do not meet the definition of low hanging fruit. For example, I suspect that very few police are given quotas around motor vehicle traffic tickets. If we wanted them to do this type of enforcement, we would have to measure it, and create incentives.

Until then, I expect the crackdown on bikers (a somewhat powerless, minority that is just starting to grow in numbers) to continue to be the subject of police crackdowns. After all, even the police officer who is walking the beat can issue a ticket against a biker. ....it takes an officer with a car to ticket a car or truck.

Yeah, I get that, but I thought those would be a minority of drivers in NYC. And some of the folks who are suspended actually don't drive when they get that letter.

I'm just trying to wrap my mind around the fact that deadbeat dads, folks already involved with the law and people with insurance lapses make up a significant portion of drivers in the city.

booklaw said:

The percentage isn't necessarily significant, until you or someone you love gets crashed into or run over.

Totally agree. I also wonder whether the stats we are looking are accurate. For example, some people may have their licenses suspended again and again. Is whoever is compiling these statistics doing it in a way that each suspension is not counted as an individual driver?

Likewise, there are people out there with suspended licenses that manage to get new licenses under false names.

http://www.dmv.ny.gov/fraud.htm

http://nycfederaldefense.com/2010/02/new-york-city-dmv-workers-arrested-for-selling-fake-ids/

These drivers should not be double counted, yet you'd have to have a pretty rigorous process to avoid that type of error.

booklaw said:

I have no statistics to back this up, but my impression (derived from an incident in which one such driver totaled our car years ago) is that many unlicensed and uninsured drivers in NYC are illegal immigrants, who tend to disappear when they get into an accident. So other than impounding their cars, the city would have difficulty collecting on tickets from such persons.

It's poor people in general. NYC car insurance rates, especially in Brooklyn, are some of the highest in the nation. Hence the coverage for uninsured drivers. Because there's an alarming amount of drivers without it. If NYS could log insurance info on their data banks, and apply the info on a car's registration sticker, all one law officer has to do is scan a car without having to go through the nonsense of issuing a warning ticket to those drivers who don't have Proof of Insurance on them. Just confiscate the offending cars. While one has a right to own a car, driving is still a privilege.

BG, what percentage of drivers charged would be acceptable? Going to Booklaw's point, if you are the victim or family member of someone who is killed and the driver is not charged does it make you feel better that in 50, 60, or 70% of the cases drivers are charged? I don't disagree that the city could be doing better, but I'm just not sure how we get to a place that is satisfactory to all parties.

Just because someone isn't charged criminally doesn't mean that they aren't at fault. The person still could be found to be negligent in the operation of the vehicle in a civil case. I'd be interested to see how many of the families of those 146 people are pursuing civil action.

Also, it appears from my quick perusal of the Penal Law (Article 125) that having a suspended license only isn't enough to get one charged with vehicular manslaughter unless that suspension was as a result of a refusal to take a drug test or conviction for operating the vehicle under the influence. If you get suspended because you can't pay your insurance or your child support that seems to be treated differently by the courts.