CH's orthodox communities wrestle with how to respond to an assault

I'm always skeptical of websites and newspapers that cater to a given community exclusively.

That said, overall, I have been impressed with the restraint that the orthodox communities have exhibited in this instance and others that I have heard about over the past several years.

With a few exceptions, I have been impressed with the young orthodox men: They seem aware of the stupidity and potential consequences of "getting revenge" on a random, innocent black teen.

I'm not sure I had that same skill set when I was 21.

I suspect it is a lot of each.

The orthodox communities have shown that they are pretty organized, and can quickly and intelligently respond to threats.

I suspect a big part of it is at the individual level: Young orthodox men may perceive themselves as having futures that they are looking forward to; futures that would be lost if they were killed, seriously injured or had to go to prison for assault.

It also wouldn't surprise me if many young Orthodox men knew they will win in the long run: If they can keep their cool until they are 30, they are likely to have a large family, an apartment, a job, a minivan, and less testosterone.

Some young black men lack this outlook, and thus have radically different futures.

armchair_warrior said:

I been victim of group thug violence, they never do it alone. bunch of cowards. once i caught two of my attackers not in their neighborhood. they were huge cowards.

point is not unbelievable they come in huge groups.

Today's report involves a storekeeper and a group of ten (10) youth.

Today at around 3:00pm, a group of about ten 15-year-old public school teens crowded into the Sell-a-Bration stationary and toy store on Kingston Ave., and began to get rowdy. Fearing damage to his store and goods, Yisroel Greenberg politely requested that they exit the store and re-enter two at a time.

Things quickly went downhill from there. The teenagers began yelling at the shopkeeper that he was only asking them to leave because he is “racist.” They began hurling accusations at the owner, saying things like “we black so our money is no good here?” and “you think we gonna steal because we black?” to which he simply said “I cannot have this many people in my store at once.”

One of them then knocked over a display case, causing about $200 worth of damage.

Hearing the commotion, a number of fellow shopkeepers came to help. They held on to the teen who caused the damage while the rest of them fled, and called Shomrim, who were followed by the Police. When the police arrived, the teen started shouting that he was assaulted by the storeowner.

Sgt. Al Kelley (who is in charge of community affairs) was phoned by one of the officers and asked how to handle the situation. Sgt. Kelley said "if the kids were also hurt then they all get arrested 'even Steven,'” (his exact words). He didn’t care what the kids did.

The Police officer was very polite and helpful, but he told the storeowner that it would not be worthwhile to press charges, because the perpetrator is a minor, and because he would probably face counter charges on the assault claim, even though it was obvious to all those present that no such thing occurred.

Instead, the cop took down the numbers to the kid’s parents and school, and promised that the appropriate measures would be taken to ensure that nothing of the sort would happen again.

source: http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=41981#c

Yes, they are quite organized and often have several men on duty at all times.

Although they are unarmed, the response time of Shromrim volunteers is often much faster than that of the police. For example, I recently witnessed a car accident on Eastern Parkway in which a orthodox guy called Shromrim and 911, seconds apart. Shromrim volunteers and the volunteer ambulance company (Hatzolah) were there almost immediately, while the FDNY ambulance and NYPD took several minutes to respond. Once FDNY and NYPD arrived, the Shromrim and ambulance handed over the situation to them.

In my experience, Lubavitch in need of assistance will call Shromrim AND the NYPD, with the order being determined partly by chance, and partly by the circumstances involved (i.e. the location, whether violence is involved, etc.)

A while ago, we discussed Shromrim on Brooklynian. Like many neighborhood watch groups and security forces, their work is fraught with political and physical risks. They are loved by some and hated by others.

They will reportedly respond to calls in their catchment area, regardless of whether anyone involved is Jewish.

In this instance, Shromrim came to the aid of a black woman who had just been robbed by a black man.

http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=29082&catid=23

The reporter states that the first Shromrim on the scene was almost arrested, but the black woman was found and verified the Shromrim's account of the event.

These problems are similar to those that the Guardian Angels regularly encounter, but Shromrim have additional risks re: racial/cultural/religious factors.

For as active as they are in the area, I have been impressed that there is not more controversy. They walk the delicate balance between security force, neighbor watch, vigilante, and police.

I can only imagine how incredibly bad it would look Shomrim were shown to consistently respond to calls on something other than a purely geographic basis.

It would be like the volunteer fire department that lets the houses burn down, because the guy didn't pay the fee, only in this case the "fee that wasn't paid" is not monetary but a complex mix of factors.

If you have decided to have an enclave based on religion, race, etc in NYC, such quagmires might be inherent parts of the deal...

It seems that Shmira lost that round. If it is still around, it seems to be in a much smaller form.

Remember when some NYC neighborhoods were in such a dire states that they were willing to hire security companies affiliated with the Nation of Islam?

So far, Shomrim has avoided the vast majority of the problems that reduced the size and power of that organization.

When running such programs, it is difficult to avoid vigilante situations like this.

Two Shomrim members in Baltimore are presently being tried for assaulting a black teen, and the trial is getting a fair amount of press:

CH info wrote: Jewish neighborhood watch groups in New York City have faced accusations of unnecessary force against blacks, creating tensions between the Jewish and black communities. That hasn't yet happened in Baltimore, according to the Rev. Alvin Gwynn Sr., president of the Interdenominational Ministerial Alliance. The organization of predominantly black clergy met with leaders of the area's Jewish community to keep relationships between the two communities strong.

“We were already working with them when this came up,” Gwynn said. “It hasn't done much damage yet.”

Baltimore is a city that's 64 percent black, and the jury will likely have eight or nine black members. So race will be a factor, said University of Baltimore School of Law professor and practicing attorney Byron Warnken.

source: http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=43323&catid=47

more press here and here.

While legal outcome of the case should be interesting, I fear cases like this will make "good people" hesitant to participate in neighborhood watches:

a. They don't want the negative actions of some other member(s) of the group to reflect on them.

b. They fear that if accused of something, they would be on their own to defend themselves.

Establishing a neighborhood watch usually stems from a balance between competing forces. For example, the public may realize that the police can not be everywhere at once, yet might not want "more police" because they do not feel the solution involves the courts.

On the other hand, some members of the public want more police attention, yet can't get it.

The police walk a similar line: They would love for crime to go down, but are weary of being seen coaching neighborhood volunteers who may engage in actions that make their jobs even more difficult.

If my fear comes true, we will have less thinking, cautious people willing to participate in neighborhood watches and more people looking for excitement and revenge.