St Johns btwn Schnectady and Utica
Comments
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Silly CTK?
If memory serves, you moved out of Brooklyn because you and your ol' White lady got tired of being harassed by the locals. Didn't you mention she got verbally accosted, and you the Melanin Carrier in the relationship, weren't you often taken to opining about how Black women treat Black men in relationships with White girls with askance?What I was bringing to the fore is the irony that being Black and male too often subjects you to White male angst as you walk down the street, White female angst as you walk down the street, Black male resentment as you walk down the street (as pointed out by WhyNot) and Black female angst who see, yet again, '..another good bruvah in the hands of some white woman...' Not to mention the police who look at you warily -- don't wear any hoodies Nigerian Guy -- and the shopowners and their employees who want to say 'wassup' to you as if to ease the perceived race/class gulf.
Also, Black life is perceived as less valuable than white life, ergo, there are likely to be more race/class stressors on homeboy.
How is that silly?
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I think the self-defeating, myopic mentality we are describing is far more stupid than silly.
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Oy Dude, not again.... Not gonna do it.
I've seen where you live dude,and you are definitely higher on the hog than I am. You can afford to call my perspective what you want -- literally... What are the views from that broad street like?
You can call unfortunate aspects of the Black experience anything you want WN31, but it is what it is..., You state a truth though, albeit unknowingly, and that is that there is a vision of the world that is being perceived, and that perception is a subjective experience, but, that doesn't make it less real. One can choose not to see it, which is delusional, or one can choose to see it and have it affect your person, which is unhealthy, or one can choose to see it, call the devil the devil when the context requires it, and live your life with vigilance. I call this last perspective the Beautiful Struggle [or BS for short
], but you can consider it a 'self-defeating, myopic mentality' if you want to. That's just the way your baby blue eyes see the world dude... -
We both seem to understand the roots of phenomena, where we differ is whether the attitude is universally shared by those sharing similar hues and background.
...we also seem to differ on whether the perspective is constructive or destructive.
The roles and players may change, but The Struggle will likely outlast us all.
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I get it: My perspective is destructive and yours is constructive. My perspective is self defeating and stupid, and yours is victorious and smart... Ah, I see. I live my life in my skin, you in yours, I describe what it is to live in this skin and you inadvertently in yours, and you presume that the world is as you live it. How more arrogant can you be? Okay -- cool. Not going there with you man. Man, life must be really great living on that broad street with a great view. You really have summed up what life is like for everyone else on the planet Whynot. thanks.
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Destructive and constructive? Victorious? Smart?
Nah, both perspectives are valid, and -in the right circumstances- constructive.
This is more about the struggle for self determination and identity. I think most people can relate to it, but (as you point out) the lucky do not have the same necessity to do so.
This is about deciding how to live one's life, and not judging those who disagree with you; who have chosen a "different path".
When I think about it, revolution and struggle has a time and a place, and each person gets to decide whether now is THE time and THE place for them.
...and how they wish to go about it. ...and what constitutes success and failure. ...and which struggles are worth fighting.
All I know is that when someone "rises up" and it is NOT the time or the place, one can either view it as being defeated, or as sacrificing for the larger struggle.
It think all of us are willing to sacrifice when they believe it plays a part in the larger struggle. ...while I may (or may not) agree with their choices, anyone who lives their lives according to such principles seems healthy to me.
...yet prisons, graveyards, and rehabs seem to be full because they lack the power to overcome the larger forces of the world.
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Okay Che' I get your point. The revolution will not be televised, so in the meantime let's diddle each other's social constructs, eat bespoke foods, wear gourmet clothes, live in handcrafted homes, ride overpriced fix-wheeled bicycles, walk about with prurient pooches, yap into steel-brushed phones, and drink expensive coffee. Peace on earth and good will to all hipsters.
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Clearly, some want AND ARE ABLE to live that way.
...the Law of Scarcity is clearly real, but clearly selectively applied.
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Mama-
I am sorry, but I will be unable to tell you how to live your life either.I can think of three succinct quotes on the topic:
1. "Do not go to war without an army"
2. "The enemy has us surrounded. ...We can attack in any direction"
3. (variation on #2):
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This is about deciding how to live one's life, and not judging those who disagree with you; who have chosen a "different path".
MHA's point, and one which I think has a lot of validity, is that the decision how to live one's life is quite dependent on how much at odds with life one happens to be at the time. Which in turn has a lot to do with the relative lack of equality of opportunity within this country.
That said, when compared to others, this country does have a HUGE amount of opportunity afforded to even its lowliest, most disadvantaged denizens.
I'm also not convinced throwing your iPhone in the nearest trash actually has a positive effect on social outcome for anyone short of its potential finder.
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Yes, and the jobs many see as being "beneath them", were seen by many of our grandparents as jobs they coveted. The vast majority of the world is currently worse off than most of our grandparents were.
Wealth, Happiness and success are all relative. I think most feel nothing but admiration for those who have achieved wealth, happiness and success despite larger obstacles.
Most of the world would love to live on St. John's and Utica, but I think I would keep looking.
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I worked out there for years. As a white girl I was left alone except some cat calls. People seemed to generally assume I was there for a reason and not just "hanging out" because of that...once I was asked if I needed help because they thought I was lost (I was trying to figure out if I should take the 46 or the 17 to get to Clarkson since they take the same time but one runs for frequently - I was not lost.) but never was I bothered in a real way.
That said, I saw people running from gunfire, I saw blood on the sidewalk, I heard people screaming, I saw fistfights, I saw cops arrest groups of men off of the street, I saw/heard ridiculous livery vans racing up and down Utica...
I wouldn't recommend it to a friend. There's not much to do out there and few non-chains for eating at. But if you want solid subway service and cheaper rents it's not the worst idea either. Just meet neighbors. Say hello. Be friendly
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MHA said:
Silly CTK?
If memory serves, you moved out of Brooklyn because you and your ol' White lady got tired of being harassed by the locals. Didn't you mention she got verbally accosted, and you the Melanin Carrier in the relationship, weren't you often taken to opining about how Black women treat Black men in relationships with White girls with askance?Yes, my now wife was getting harassed, but I wasn't. I wanted to leave mainly because of the quality of life issues ranging from issues with the apartment to issues with neighbors in the building to having my car broken into + bike stolen to the loud parties + music etc. And I don't know what you are talking about as far as black women white women... all my homegirls from back home had nothing but congratulations and love for us when we told them we were getting married, and nobody in the neighborhood said anything to us, at least while I was there or that I knew about. Stop projecting.
MHA said:
What I was bringing to the fore is the irony that being Black and male too often subjects you to White male angst as you walk down the street, White female angst as you walk down the street, Black male resentment as you walk down the street (as pointed out by WhyNot) and Black female angst who see, yet again, '..another good bruvah in the hands of some white woman...' Not to mention the police who look at you warily -- don't wear any hoodies Nigerian Guy -- and the shopowners and their employees who want to say 'wassup' to you as if to ease the perceived race/class gulf.Also, Black life is perceived as less valuable than white life, ergo, there are likely to be more race/class stressors on homeboy.
How is that silly?
Its silly because its not at all reflective of my experience, and if anything is prob more reflective of your own confirmation bias (remember Vespagate?)
There were only two people in the neighborhood who directly "confronted" or dealt with me- a crackhead who I found riding my bike, and an old cokehead who tried to befriend me so he could ask me for money. I wore hoodies all the time when I rode my bike and had no problems w/cops. I didn't really notice any white women shrieking and crossing the street when I walked around alone. Other than that, I got along fine with the few neighbors I interacted with, as well as my gym & music buddies, and didn't really have problems with anybody.
Your problem seems to be that you think everyone is out to get you, and so when something happens that could possibly remotely be construed as such, you jump on it. Confirmation bias. A black man who does not get involved w/crime is safe in CH, and if he can put up with the quality of life issues its not a bad place to live. Of all the issues I had with CH, MY personal safety was NEVER one of them- I have friends there and go back pretty often. But the personal safety of my wife? You bet it was a priority, and fuck anybody who resents me for moving to keep her safe + happy (among other reasons).
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Well white lady moving with Nigerian dude - whatever you do - don't smile first.... The reasons for this are many and archived within these hallowed virtual walls...
"I'm also not convinced throwing your iPhone in the nearest trash actually has a positive effect on social outcome for anyone short of its potential finder."
Eastbloc - well said... I don't agree, but still, well said. Really great imagery here. Quite eloquent actually.
Whynot -- I get it, shut the hell up cuz this is still the greatest place on earth and millions of minions would love to have the problems of the Black and poor here. But that's just rhetoric dude. The fact is 'folks are in the here and now, and just because we all have the opportunity to make a pop record that makes millions, to play Lotto and win millions, to become successful, the truth is that plausible potential doesn't guarantee such is the case. We lament the Babyblonian indifference that China shows to its population, moving them here and there whenever their version of eminent domain requires people be moved. Here we have 'market forces' that purportedly do the same thing. And when protest is made about it, people shrug like lighting, thunder, and floodwater pushed people away: ''I dunno , force majeur did it.''
That's not an accurate explanation. Market forces in tandem with social forces keep Black and poor people Black and poor. Your normative gaze is just that dude, and it will only see what you choose for it to see. Just remember that.
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MHA-
I do not believe there will ever come a time when we should be satisfied with our progress.Do you?
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MHA do you think there is anything black people can do to help ourselves in this situation?
What do you see as the way out, and whose responsibility is it to create it? You speak of normative gazes and write off people's whose parameters or POV result in a different conclusion than yours, without even acknowledging the faults in your own bias.
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Just released a few more posts mistakenly marked by the spam filter, including CTK's above. Apologies again, will look into wth's going on there.
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YO dude, I have no desire to go there with you man, seriously. Our mutual animus is old news. Anybody willing to be entertained by it can just read the old stuff. If you think I don't htink every individual has personal responsibility, then you definitiely do not grasp what I am saying. And your obscenity above -- were I to say it I know Homeowner would be on my A** about cursing.
Everyone out to get me? -- well, not everyone... if you're a Black man not living with some degree of paranoia, then, CTK, you are at best naive, and at worst a fool.
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CTK-
I think we all have an obligation to constantly try to improve ourselves, as well as try to convince others that they are able to improve themselves.It is a sad day when we conclude that "someone (including ourselves) has reached the point where they ARE all they are EVER going to be".
Depression and fatalism suck. Let's continue to try to improve ourselves and help others.
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MHA, just some tips. Putting forth an ideology and refusing to defend it is prob the best way to undermine its credibility. And trading personal responsibility for perceived victimhood is prob the best way to guarantee personal failure. Not to mention the height of intellectual cowardice. Your most heated posts have a storied legacy of throwing wild ideological stones and promptly hiding your hand. It's tired.
I have no paranoia, because experience has taught me that 9 times out of 10 you get out what you put in, and that 10th time is pure chance. Yes, people get different starts in life. But if the system were 100% stacked against certain people, how do you explain the exceptions? What about the consequence of choices? Gah... why do I even bother, it's a waste of time.
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CTK-
I think we bother because we understand that our ability to help/change others, is limited by the individual's belief that positive outcomes are achievable for them.When we lack their buy-in and cooperation, our responsibilities and powers diminish.
The weather was hot out today, wasn't it?
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It seems to me that MHA lives in a world of "I told you so" while CTK lives in a world of "what if?"
On the surface, it's a very similar existence, only the horizon is painted as near or far as the imagination of each respective philosophy.
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indeed.
....returning to the topic of crime in the area.
Sadly, there was a shooting tonight, and such events are far too common in that part of CH:
Shooting
BROOKLYN: *SHOOTING* (77 PCT) LINCOLN PL & TROY AVE. PD O/S WITH A MALE SHOT, REQ EMS. LEVEL-1 MOB CALLED IN REGARDS. REQ ESU FOR EVIDENCE SEARCH. MNS463/626 (c) [MNS225]
Lincoln Pl & Troy Ave
Brooklyn, NY
6/20/2012 5:46 p.m.Address is located about a block from "St Johns between Schenectady and Utica"
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Troy? Thats damn near ENY
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Yes, in many ways.
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Huh? It's almost dead center (no pun intended) Crown Heights North. It's not even in my no-go zone. I run my dog there all the time.
There's a whole neighborhood (Brownsville) between there and East New York, not to mention the rest of Crown Heights.
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I interpreted his comment to be socio-economic, as opposed to geographic.
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Damn, we had been up to 80-something days without a shooting in this part of CH, according to the SOS count.
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