Please Advise: Crown Heights Safety Kingston Ave

I would SERIOUSLY reconsider. At best, rent an apartment first, so that if you don't like it you won't be tied up in trying to sell the place.

Kingston isn't BAD, but IME its not great either... definitely not a place I personally would want to buy a place, if I had a wife + was planning to have any kids.

Here is a pretty long thread about a place not far and not much different...

http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/st-johns-btwn-schnectady-and-utica

I would stay west of Bedford and south of Atlantic... that region is more expensive for a reason

As a homeowner on that block, I have a different perspective (I'll send you an email with more details).

You may want to check out these recent threads, which are specifically about Kingston Avenue: http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/crown-heights-1#post-755370 and http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/lincoln-place-and-kingston-ave-whats-it-like

And to answer your transit question, I have walked home alone from both of those stations up until midnight, though, like Eastbloc said, the walk from Eastern Parkway feels safer. For the first four blocks through Park Place, there are usually people out and at least one business open. Your wife can also get an escort from Brooklyn Bike Patrol (from either station) if she feels unsafe, though the women I know on the block haven't mentioned any issues while they've been commuting, walking their dogs, etc.

I agree that if you can still reconsider, you should. I would also suggest that in your future search for an apartment to buy, you do this due diligence BEFORE you make the offer!

For the record, I wasn't trying to discourage the OP from buying for safety reasons. I don't think you're all that much safer on Franklin than on Kingston.

I just know how much easier it is to buy than to sell, especially in areas that make a lot of potential buyers nervous, and all of those things (proximity to Albany/Albany Homes/class and racial make-up of the nabe/Crown Heights in general) have that effect on at least a significant portion of the potential market, and _should_ have a commensurate effect on the purchase price.

That's an interesting point about resale, eastbloc. I think if it's a long-term buy and the block, and surrounding blocks, continue to improve the way they have been, then the proximity of the projects won't be a deal breaker. Not comparing Crown Heights to Boerum Hill, but this NYT article seems to suggest as much: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/nyregion/brownstone-brooklyn-between-2-housing-projects.html. Thoughts? I wonder how the much more stable block of Prospect between Kingston and Albany has fared in that sense.

I lived in this area for a year, and as a small white woman (who isn't unfamiliar with living and working in areas that are a bit...rough around the edges), I had to put in my two cents on the matter.

Personally I hated living here. I worked late and walked home from the 3, but I always felt extremely uneasy about it - it gets dead quiet out there, and not every street is well lit. Many nights I ended up taking cabs home. Even during the day there were some areas and blocks I felt uncomfortable walking down; I've never been attacked but myself and my roommate at the time were routinely harassed and catcalled, loudly and lewdly, on the street.

I appreciate that Crown Heights has become much safer over the past few years, and that more and more young professionals are moving to the area. But it's still not a great neighborhood and probably won't be for years. I was relieved to leave it and move someplace where I feel comfortable.

If I were you, I would reconsider.

All the man asked was which subway line to ride at night.

On another note, they are moving from HARLEM. Have any of you ever been there? It still has some of its own problems. Depending on where they are moving from, this may be a nice step in the right direction. BTW, I live east of Bedford and I am happy to say that I am pleased with my home, my neighbors, and the continuing addition of new families and the diversity that they bring. But, as I am not white or skinny, my opinions are probably shaded (pun intended) a bit differently than those of a different background.

"I certainly don't view housing projects as inherently undesirable or sources of blight"

I love how brave you are to say that. Youd take a evening stroll past there with some buddies?

I think not.

Lol...i can smell the white guilt from here!

You are allowed to be honest about your feelings, eastbloc.

You wont be accused of anything if you consider that housing project scary to live near.

IMHO

I've always thought of housing projects as being:

"they are what they are"

Meaning, a nearby project will provide housing to those who can adhere to the terms of the leases Granted this not a very high standard, but NYCHA has a pretty long waiting list of people to use when/if a tenant violates the lease.

Originally, most NYCHA projects were for the working poor and the disabled.

Turnover was rare.

Now, most of the units that become vacant are filled with people who are not working and/or have substantial needs. This creates a lot of turnover because these folks fail to pay their rent and/or get evicted for other reasons; Housing alone will not solve their/our problems.

Lots of turnover results in no sense of community/accountability. ...people tend to be inconsiderate and criminal to each other when they think consequences are unlikely.

It does, however, save the city $ in shelter costs:

Subject: Prioritizing Homeless Families for Public Housing and Housing Vouchers

With the number of children and adults in the city’s shelter system on the rise, City Council Speaker Christine Quinn proposed prioritizing 2,500 public housing apartments and 2,500 housing vouchers annually for homeless families in her State of the City speech in February. The Coalition for the Homeless asked IBO to evaluate the fiscal impact of the proposal. Our findings: even if the priority led to more families entering the shelter system and fewer leaving on their own accord, there would be savings in shelter costs.

 

The complete fiscal impact analysis, in the form of a letter,  is available on IBO's Web site at: http://bit.ly/Mthyhi

CTK-

The Feds pay for a greater % of NYCHA than shelters. So we are basically moving the burden of the homeless folks to the Feds, and making the working class folks who live in the projects have to be their neighbors.

In a way, we are saying "you are all the same".

I wish those working class folks would vote. Then, the gov couldn't force them to deal with these multi-problem homeless families "alone", and the projects would be nicer to live around.

However, I think the trend we are seeing will merely accelerate, because we need more permanent, less expensive options than shelters. ....so I advise against buying near a housing project on the basis that I fear they will become worse than they are today.

They may become even more filled with people who are unable/unwlling to demand effective police, fire, education and sanitation services.

There are a lot of places in Queens off of various subway lines that are similarly priced or slightly more expensive with zero safety issues. Depending on what train you are near, faster to Midtown too. Even if the place is a smoking deal, I am not sure it will be worth the potential headaches/disappointment - especially if the OP is unhappy in Harlem.

What's there not to get? Some people just don't want to live in Queens. Why not suggest New Jersey, too? Hoboken maybe? Even fewer safety issues than Queens (which by the way is not completely safe). After all, the PATH is cheaper than the subway, and takes you to midtown just as quickly.

A lot of the "safe" communities in the NYC area would bore me to tears. I suspect that's why I tend to look for neighborhoods that are changing.

....the chance of selling my condo for a profit is also an attraction.

I don't know if the OP plans on having kids, but many people choose to live in boring neighborhoods with low $ returns, just to get them an ok education...

Although the OP might not have kids, if he tries to sell it in 5 years, the potential buyers might.....

Yes.

I think we are also missing info on another factor: Price.

We'd have a lot more opinions on whether the OP was making a good purchase if we knew they were considering spending "400k on a 1200 sq ft doorman building with stainless kitchen and a backyard" in the 'hood, because we understand there is often a trade off between the perception of safety and price.

We could then opine about what price would be cheap enough for each of us to live in the area, and we'd likely have different answers, especially in the hypothetical....

Yeah, but that makes for a short and boring answer, so we had to expand the scope a bit

You two are hilarious. :thumleft: