Block Party Hell - Union and Franklin
Came back from the lovely Franklin Ave kids day on the north side of Eastern Parkway to find that on the south side there was an outrageously loud block party on Union, featuring a typically Caribbean DJ who screams at no one as a bass thumps so heavily that it rattles the silverware in my apartment a block and a half away.
I know this is merely a cultural difference, but honestly, why can't Caribbeans have gatherings that don't feature music loud enough to be heard from space? Am I just a crotchety white dude living in the wrong neighborhood, or is there something truly insane about needing your parties to be this loud?
Comments
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Ha! Its not a "cultural" thing and it has nothing to do with your Whiteness. I am a professional female who happens to be Black and I loathe loud parties. I moved from my place on 4th ave in SP to avoid that junk. They were Latino by the way
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BiffAckley said:
I know this is merely a cultural difference, but honestly, why can't Caribbeans have gatherings that don't feature music loud enough to be heard from space? Am I just a crotchety white dude living in the wrong neighborhood, or is there something truly insane about needing your parties to be this loud?Your addressing Caribbean folks, so let me address you right back:
Why do you think that civility and neighborliness is a patented trait that belongs to white people?
I'm black and I feel disturbed by the loud music. I have a toddler that gets woken up at night by the rapping retards in the backyard to my left and the drunkard, pseudo-frat parties on my right. All summer long. In the evenings I yearn for rain showers. Everyday.
Please humor me and my westernly civilized Caribbean family and call 311 or the 77th precinct and launch a complaint if you want change, instead of putting all of "us" into one pot.
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Why do you think that civility and neighborliness is a patented trait that belongs to white people?
I don't. But I also don't see my civil, neighborly Caribbean neighbors (and most of them are both of those things) doing anything to try and persuade their more disruptive neighbors to be more civil and neighborly. There's a kind of 'live and let live' attitude that seems to dissuade people here from confronting their neighbors or telling the DJ at the block party or the guy with the SUV down on the street to turn it down. So I always feel like the jerk complaining about these things, confronting people directly when possible or calling the cops (who don't care in the slightest) when its not, while my Caribbean neighbors shrug their shoulders. Everyone in your building should be confronting the rapping retards who are waking up your toddler, but somehow I doubt that's happening.
Incidentally, the block party on Union was interrupted at 6:30 when half the 71st precinct descended on the block to deal with some sort of criminal activity. Meaning the party couldn't make it to the 4-hour mark before something went down.
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Are you insinuating that it's easier for a "civil, neighborly Caribbean" to confront other Carribean people about noise disturbances because he's black or from the same culture?
Have you ever confronted someone on the street about their car playing so loud that it woke your three month old baby at 1 am and had your life threatened? No, ok. I'll stick to the official channels, thank you very much.
We care. We suffer the same way as you do from asshole neighbors. It's quite presumptuous to think that every black person or Caribbean condones this crap. We need our sleep too to go to work and raise our kids. It's not just only "you" that leads an orderly life.
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get on top of a tall building and fling sting bombs there but don't let anyone see you or sling shot some over lol.
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Fair enough, lovechild. When I confront people I'm prone to get the "Who do you think you are, I've lived here my whole life..." defense, and I actually would assume you would be in a better position to confront people as a Caribbean. But it would appear not, since in fact I haven't ever been threatened upon confronting people.
At any rate, I hope your situation improves. I also have young kids, and I think we agree that noisemakers are a particular nuisance when you have kids in the house.
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You are just going to have to move. You come from a middle class culture, and you will have to find others who are middle class/ upwardly mobile like yourself.
I think what you are discussing is a complex racially tinged class issue. Many of these Hiphop/reggae/pachata listeners come from lower income backgrounds. Usually there is overcrowding and a lack of effective supervision/ passing on of manners to ensure "neighborliness". I say this, because when you listen to the lyrics of a lot of these types of music (especially the hip hop and reggae), they tend to discuss issues that are pertinent to poor folks. They also tend to appeal to trashy low class folks. You are more likely to find someone blasting Jay-Z and Beyonce than say Joe Henderson or Miles Davis. All of these artists I listed are Black, however their musical aspirations and appeal are different. Davis and Henderson, require careful listening, as Jazz is a complex music that suits "thinking" contemplative type people, people who are more likely to "work jobs". Hip Hop like dance music requires very little thinking and is a very physical type of music. Just think, you don't go to the gym and listen to Jazz or Harp music. Hip hop is meant to be loud and in your face. Its the music of low-class, loud, and "in your face" type people. Punk rock was similar at one time.
Those people who are listening to that Reggae and Hiphop idenitfy with or at least align themselves with that "in your face offensiveness". The whole point of that music is to play it loud and not care what others think. Its the same type of nihilistic offensiveness that was Punk Rock or Heavy Metal.
My two cents would be for you to move, and to find a neighborhood with older folks and middle to upper middle class folks. I know I cannot listen to Crass a punk band as loud as I used to. I am older now, less nihilistic and antisocial. I am more upwardly mobile. I find myself, curling my lips at Crust Punks, especially those who panhandle and look high. I realize that the music is really a class identification
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armchair_warrior said:
get on top of a tall building and fling sting bombs there but don't let anyone see you or sling shot some over lol.I've been wanting to buy a sniper rifle, sit on my roof and take em out one by one like Private Jackson, but then again, what example am I setting for my child? But a woman can dream, right?
BiffAckley said:
Fair enough, lovechild. When I confront people I'm prone to get the "Who do you think you are, I've lived here my whole life..." defense, and I actually would assume you would be in a better position to confront people as a Caribbean. But it would appear not, since in fact I haven't ever been threatened upon confronting people.At any rate, I hope your situation improves. I also have young kids, and I think we agree that noisemakers are a particular nuisance when you have kids in the house.
It's easy to fall back on that stereotype because all you see around here during the day, especially during the week, are trouble makers, but I'd beg of you to look deeper into the culture before passing judgement like that. It's offensive. It's like me pulling a bigoted, anti-semetic or racist statement out of my hat simply because it's what I see on a day to day basis. All white people in the area aren't hipsters as much as all black people around here aren't thugs. You just can't go around thinking like that, because it's unfair to those that don't fit the profile.
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Actually, given the rapid change that PH and western CH is going thru, BiffAckley may be wise to stay, and not move somewhere else.
I mark 2006 as the year those who lived between Underhill and Washington could start enjoying relative peace and quiet.
2009 it happened between Washington and Classon.
...and the area between Classon and Bedford is presently undergoing the same process.
They newcomers arrive as new graduates working in salaried positions, then (a few years later) find themselves pushing baby strollers.
My neighbors haven't yet gotten up the courage to tell me and my dog we should be quieter, but if this place becomes the Upper West Side, I am sure they will try.
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whynot_31 said:
Actually, given the rapid change that PH and western CH is going thru, BiffAckley may be wise to stay, and not move somewhere else.I mark 2006 as the year those who lived between Underhill and Washington could start enjoying relative peace and quiet.
2009 it happened between Washington and Classon.
...and the area between Classon and Bedford is presently undergoing the same process.
They newcomers arrive as new graduates working in salaried positions, then (a few years later) find themselves pushing baby strollers.
My neighbors haven't yet gotten up the courage to tell me and my dog we should be quieter, but if this place becomes the Upper West Side, I am sure they will try.
housing density wouldn't allow quick gentrification. Got alot of big ass buildings once you past franklin.
the reason PH gentrify quickly was alot of beaten down poor housing stock and tons of under utilize housing. it didn't displace people but brought in alot more people to the area.
CH on the other hand has tons of apt buildings and people are not going any where quick.
that is why east of prospect park isn't gentrifying. simply because of the huge buildings there.
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opps i mean stink bombs
and add water balloons to that list of things to fling at bad neighbors. -
AW-
The trick would be to find a top floor apartment where lovechild lives below, psycho-ologist on the right, and biffackley on the left. They sound like ideal neighbors, and it would be totally quiet.You'd want the windows to be in the front, in case you had loud people in the court yard.
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armchair_warrior said:
housing density wouldn't allow quick gentrification. Got alot of big ass buildings once you past franklin.the reason PH gentrify quickly was alot of beaten down poor housing stock and tons of under utilize housing. it didn't displace people but brought in alot more people to the area.
CH on the other hand has tons of apt buildings and people are not going any where quick.
that is why east of prospect park isn't gentrifying. simply because of the huge buildings there.
Not sure I agree with you. We live between Washington and Classon. In the summer of 2009, there were really loud parties every Saturday in the Elijah Stroud playground, no amount of calls to the NYPD brought relief. In 2010, there were a few less parties, 2011 we could count the parties on one hand. This summer I think there was one party but it wasn't loud, but the partygoers trashed the park. From what I observed these parties were gang organised.
I think what has happened, and what will continue to happen, is that any apartment that is vacated will get renovated enough to take it out of rent stabilisation and then rented to higher income tenants. A lot of the apartments while ostensibly rent stabilised may be being rented at less than the legal rent, so on renewal the landlord increases the rent to the legal rent, tenant can't afford it so moves. Landlords also evict anyone illegally subletting their apartment, and anyone who has illegally modified their apartment. Also if a building has six or fewer apartments it won't be rent stabilised, so if a landlord wants to renovate a building and seek higher income tenants, it is relatively straightforward to decline to renew leases and terminate tenancies.
Short story, I think that there are ways and means to get a lot of the housing stock in Crown Heights upgraded. The only way you can guarantee life long residency is if you buy your home.
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I see signs of change on Nostrand and New York Ave.
The gentrifiers, many of them chocolate in hue, have arrived. They are befriending the long term homeowners and amplifying their voices.
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whynot_31 said:
Actually, given the rapid change that PH and western CH is going thru, BiffAckley may be wise to stay, and not move somewhere else.I mark 2006 as the year those who lived between Underhill and Washington could start enjoying relative peace and quiet.
2009 it happened between Washington and Classon.
...and the area between Classon and Bedford is presently undergoing the same process.
They newcomers arrive as new graduates working in salaried positions, then (a few years later) find themselves pushing baby strollers.
My neighbors haven't yet gotten up the courage to tell me and my dog we should be quieter, but if this place becomes the Upper West Side, I am sure they will try.
Ha! I gotta laugh. I agree with you. By no means would I even want my nabe to be UWS or even worse the UES. Those folks complain about dripping air-conditioners. I have a friend who received a compliant from her neighbor that her air-conditioner drips onto the window of her neighbor, below and "makes a mess".
My contention is the weighing of options: Should you at 36 (my age) or whatever "settling age" have to wait out the horrors of the eventual low class exodus, and put up with the possibility of 3-5+ years of seasonal misery (summer related drama), or should you just move now and enjoy the quality of life you have spent years in school and at work preparing for?
I chose quality of life. I can't see myself at 40 or 42 trying to navigate a high stress but well paying job, and having to still contend with not being able to relax at home either. What is the point of working hard and deferring dreams if both your work and home life are hell? You might as well not have gone to school, and settled for working in a craptastic retail job and living in a low rent dump.
EDIT:
by no means is PH a dump. I love the nabe. The areas I would chose would probably be too expensive for me to live in, but the affordable areas are places where people often have to face the quandary that I wrote about. Is it worth it? I actually would welcome comments about that. -
whynot_31 said:
I see signs of change on Nostrand and New York Ave.The gentrifiers, many of them chocolate in hue, have arrived. They are befriending the long term homeowners and amplifying their voices.
Thank you for saying this. I keep arguing that it is a class issue, but every time I read these threads I get a not so subtle feeling, that many folks use "culture" or "neighborhood" as euphemism for "blackness" and "trashiness".
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bohuma said:
Not sure I agree with you. We live between Washington and Classon. In the summer of 2009, there were really loud parties every Saturday in the Elijah Stroud playground, no amount of calls to the NYPD brought relief. In 2010, there were a few less parties, 2011 we could count the parties on one hand. This summer I think there was one party but it wasn't loud, but the partygoers trashed the park. From what I observed these parties were gang organised.I think what has happened, and what will continue to happen, is that any apartment that is vacated will get renovated enough to take it out of rent stabilisation and then rented to higher income tenants. A lot of the apartments while ostensibly rent stabilised may be being rented at less than the legal rent, so on renewal the landlord increases the rent to the legal rent, tenant can't afford it so moves. Landlords also evict anyone illegally subletting their apartment, and anyone who has illegally modified their apartment. Also if a building has six or fewer apartments it won't be rent stabilised, so if a landlord wants to renovate a building and seek higher income tenants, it is relatively straightforward to decline to renew leases and terminate tenancies.
Short story, I think that there are ways and means to get a lot of the housing stock in Crown Heights upgraded. The only way you can guarantee life long residency is if you buy your home.
that is why it is taking longer to gentrify the area closer to eastern parkway alot more denser housing vs atlantic side. alot more poorer housing and less denser.
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armchair_warrior said:
housing density wouldn't allow quick gentrification. Got alot of big ass buildings once you past franklin.the reason PH gentrify quickly was alot of beaten down poor housing stock and tons of under utilize housing. it didn't displace people but brought in alot more people to the area.
CH on the other hand has tons of apt buildings and people are not going any where quick.
that is why east of prospect park isn't gentrifying. simply because of the huge buildings there.
I agree with this. One of my friends lives in East Harlem, and one of the big reasons why she STILL can't enjoy her neighborhood despite "gentrification" of the smaller buildings, is that she is surrounded by projects and large rent stabilized buildings with section 8 tenants. Her neighborhood will not be like the very west west side of Harlem where smaller buildings have been able to rid themselves of these folks. I am wording that too strongly, some Section 8 people I am sure are decent, but many are not.
I always tell people who are looking for places never to live anywhere near a project or large section 8 building.
PS: from a sociologist friend of mine: Upstate NY, Philly and the surrounding PA area, Georgia, NC and SC will be the new "problem" areas. The migration of section 8 applications has given her this hint.
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The suburbs are becoming the new ghetto because alot of people are renting out those homes in the suburbs to section 8 folks.
Culture has alot to due with violent crime etc..
you don't see alot of poor section 8 hadsic folks going around robbing people.
If i was poor I rather live in a hasidic ghetto.
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armchair_warrior said:
The suburbs are becoming the new ghetto because alot of people are renting out those homes in the suburbs to section 8 folks.Culture has alot to due with violent crime etc..
you don't see alot of poor section 8 hadsic folks going around robbing people.
If i was poor I rather live in a hasidic ghetto.
DISAGREE.
You are comparing apples with oranges. A community will commit a crime that is A) Most easily pulled off, and
most lucrative. Hasidim are very easily recognized by others, because they are so different, so their crimes wont be mugging, since they would be easily identified, but rather Medicaid and Welfare fraud.Italian Mafia are just as violent as the muggers, but due to their White phenotype, are able to more easily mingle with and do business with other Whites, therefore its easier for them and more lucrative to do business related crimes, and contract style killings.
Hasidim are a community that while they are poor, SELF SEGREGATES, so the crime they commit tends to be very insular and not noticed among people like you or me.
Many Mexicans also have the same dynamic due to language and cultural barriers.
If you read their own papers or really interact with them, you will know how much drugs, prostitution and all sorts of criminal activity is really taking place in Mexican communities.
If it's any indication read about the level of violence in the Juarez area in Mexico due to drug cartels.
Now poor Latinos from Puerto Rico and the DR, as well as poor Blacks are culturally integrated in the USA. They fit in with you and me and can pass along more "anonymously", so they ARE more likely to target you and me as "regular New Yorkers".
Now qualitatively that is also very different than poor Whites who tend to live in very rural and spread out areas, so their crimes are also not as "in your face". For an example, a meth addict in middle America will probably rob an empty house and get away by car, rather than mug a person on the streets. Those White poor live in the suburbs so mugging just isn't very lucrative to them.
Just notice how Columbine and Aurora type phenomenon don't happen in urban places because the difficulty in obtaining weapons in urban areas.
The type of crime many of these Hasidim perpetrate is qualitatively different and is often only reported to their own "authority" figures. I have a psychologist friend who works in this community, and can tell you that there is a MASSIVE amount of credit card, medicaid, welfare, housing and insurance fraud. Why because these things require very little face to face interaction and can be done by someone who looks very different from the American populous.
PS: crime is often committed same race on same race, due to the likelihood of living "amongst" your own, and being able to fade into the populous of "your own" as you try to flee capture.
I used that philosophy effectively, and chose to live in Latino neighborhoods, due in part to the fact that I love my brown people, but I know that since there is a huge cultural and language divide, I won't be targeted nearly as often, with cat calls etc. I have proven myself right anecdotally.
I also believe this is why when White folks get mugged or hurt by Black/Latino's its front page news, but every sad little Black woman/man who is ever assaulted/raped/mugged etc, doesn't even make a blurb next to the obituaries, because its so common.
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well I prefer their type of crimes lol, where i don't get my face beaten in etc...
that is what i meant by robbing people.I rather be have my id stolen etc.. instead of get beaten. A stolen Id is easier to deal with.
I had experience both type of crimes.
Risk vs reward the white collar crimes are much better vs the violent crimes.
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Any criminals out there who wants to rob people, its not worth it man!!! you get a few dollars for your time.
If you want go after tax fraud fake filing, it is one of the easiest crimes to do these days and you could literally get millions without even bother getting caught because the system is retarded. the IRS and taxes needs reform!!!
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armchair_warrior said:
Any criminals out there who wants to rob people, its not worth it man!!! you get a few dollars for your time.If you want go after tax fraud fake filing, it is one of the easiest crimes to do these days and you could literally get millions without even bother getting caught because the system is retarded. the IRS and taxes needs reform!!!
Historically Blacks and Latinos have been denied the educational and business opportunities that would allow them to commit such tax frauds, due in part to our phenotype. Just try getting a loan or even an apartment as a Black or Latino person and see the difference in the level of suspicion and scrutiny, when it comes to proving our credit worthiness. This has been documented. I am too lazy to provide links, but just Google racial loan bias, or racial apartment bias.
So for Blacks and Latino's mugging and armed robbery ARE the most lucrative game in town, because we don't have White or Asian privilege to be trusted enough to get into the business door in order to commit the type of banking and credit fraud that is committed by Whites and Asians.
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The Psycho-ologist said:
Historically Blacks and Latinos have been denied the educational and business opportunities that would allow them to commit such tax frauds, due in part to our phenotype. Just try getting a loan or even an apartment as a Black or Latino person and see the difference in the level of suspicion and scrutiny, when it comes to proving our credit worthiness. This has been documented. I am too lazy to provide links, but just Google racial loan bias, or racial apartment bias.So for Blacks and Latino's mugging and armed robbery ARE the most lucrative game in town, because we don't have White or Asian privilege to be trusted enough to get into the business door in order to commit the type of banking and credit fraud that is committed by Whites and Asians.
education is free. I grew up poorer than the kids in the projects. hell they made fun of me for wearing the same thing each day etc...
anyway point is anyone with basic reading skills can easily file them these days. hell or get a computer program. only thing they need is a stolen id and that is about it.
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http://brooklynian.com/forum/park-slope/middle-of-the-night-ahole-noises
lol I like this thread
. classic. -
my bad you don't even need a fake id this lady stole 2 million and she would of gotten away with it if she didn't reported her money stolen to the cops LOL.
Yes the IRS is that incompetent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/11/krystle-marie-reyes_n_1586502.html
One Oregon woman almost got away with a bogus $2.1 million tax refund.
Krystle Marie Reyes, a 25-year-old woman from Salem was arrested and jailed last week for filing a bogus tax return on $3 million in income, according to an affidavit obtained by the Oregonian.
Reyes got $2.1 million back on a prepaid debit card and went on a bit of a spending spree, shelling out $150,000 on a variety of things, including a decidedly not-extravagant 1999 Dodge Caravan, according to the affidavit. She bought a 1999 Dodge Caravan and tires, among other things. According to the affidavit, Reyes appears to have lied about her employer and wages instead of stealing someone else's identity--an increasingly common way tax scammers are getting tax refunds.
Reyes got caught after reporting her debit card missing.
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armchair_warrior said:
well I prefer their type of crimes lol, where i don't get my face beaten in etc...
that is what i meant by robbing people.I rather be have my id stolen etc.. instead of get beaten. A stolen Id is easier to deal with.
I had experience both type of crimes.
Risk vs reward the white collar crimes are much better vs the violent crimes.
Really it is much faster for a broken nose to heal after a mugging than it is, to legally straighten out identity theft or dispute fraud through court.
Methinks this is just a racially tinged superiority complex about which crimes are "less bad"
Ask a retired Teacher who had their entire pension erased by Micheal Milken's junk bonds, which crime they would have preferred.
or perhaps someone's entire ENRON pension and savings that were wiped out whether they would prefer to have their IPOD snatched or their entire home foreclosed on by the "nicer criminals" at Countrywide.
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Like i said I had both done to me, I rather spend time working out the id fraud than have my ass beaten.
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armchair_warrior said:
education is free. I grew up poorer than the kids in the projects. hell they made fun of me for wearing the same thing each day etc...anyway point is anyone with basic reading skills can easily file them these days. hell or get a computer program. only thing they need is a stolen id and that is about it.
Education is most certainly NOT free.
Ask any college graduate about their monthly student loan payments.
From K-12 there are several caveats to the "free" argument
There is something called "district-ing" whereby people in lower income neighborhoods namely Blacks and Latinos' live in areas where there are not enough tax dollars allocated to schools and schools in such neighborhoods end up under-performing with less qualified and poorer performing students.
rich neighborhood schools versus poor neighborhood schools
Another thing, which as become quite popular is the "private funding" of public school related extra curricular activities and school sponsored events in areas where well heeled parents live:
enNY times article on this type of subsidy
another example:more info on how the rich become qualitatively different even with public school education
This causes a HUGE disparity in the quality of education Lakeisha gets versus Penelope.
This is NOT including the SAT ACT, KAPLAN, and after school enrichment programs that these parents can afford to lavish on their kids.
I am so familiar with the district argument, having grown up in the burbs and literally having witnessed huge PTA and community wars over the suspicious carving of "school districts" where poor whites would do ANYTHING to try to be included in the Clarkstown Central school district, but did EVERYTHING to rally against the Hispanics who would have been similarly entitled if the "district line" was drawn more fairly. I am talking about the inclusion of Nanuet versus Havestraw, Why extend the district more south but NOT more north? This was in Rockland county way back when. I don't know how it is now.
I know in Monsey where I grew up there were also similar fights, but none which made the Rockland Journal News as frequently.
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