This site is closed to new comments and posts.

Notice: This site uses cookies to function.
If you are not comfortable with cookies then please don't browse this website.

Old rusty arena being built - Page 2 — Brooklynian

Old rusty arena being built

2»

Comments

  • chekhovian
    chekhovian

    That seems like an article based on a very broad report, one that doesn't address any of the specifics of the Brooklyn arena. However, it does state:

    "The study also found positive impacts for arenas built in "basketball-only cities during 1995–2009," but there was no impact for cities which are home to multiple sports."

    Given that there is no other sports franchise in Brooklyn, then I think that means the Barclays Center would have positive impacts.

    Some of the lines make no sense taken out of context:

    "The cities with the newest arenas took the biggest economic hit — a "decline in per capita income of about $2,430, a larger decline than in any other period, according to the study." Alarmingly, the magnitudes of the income declines in this study "are generally larger than what has previously been observed," the study finds."

    You should ask Richard Florida to clarify that. We're all going to lose that much in taxes for the arena? I doubt it.

    The sentence that might support your argument the best is that arenas are complements to growing urban areas and they are not the cause but the effect of such urban development. Well, going back to what I've seen on Vanderbilt, I'd argue the opposite in this case because there has been such rapid growth recently.

  • threecee
    threecee

    yeah, i found some of this article confusing, too, and i could use some clarification. and, i agree that i think barclays is more about the effect rather than the cause, because:

    - chuck ratner described the site as "a great piece of real estate" which definitely under cuts their "blight" claim. it's a great location, well served by mass transit, close to lower manhattan, and until about 10 years ago, relatively inexpensive compared to areas west.

    - many reports (even some of ratner's own studies) state the area was already gentrifying rapidly before atlantic yards was announced.

    i don't think too much of the recent activity on vanderbilt can be attributed to the arena. i think it's more about the gradual improvement of the economy and location, location, location: it's a great piece of real estate, barclays or no barclays.

    ratner got a great deal on 22 acres in the middle of rapidly gentrifying central brooklyn, that just happens to be adjacent to his other properties, along with direct subsidies, tax abatements and very generous loan terms. will it be a net positive financially for the city and state? we first have to recoup all of the tax breaks, subsidies and give-aways before we get out of the red, and we don't get much (any?) of the profits or sponsorship deals. oh, and we also have to pay for the increased loads on our infrastructure and services. i think we (the tax payers) got suckered.

  • queenj
    queenj

    Yes, Double Dutch does trump the NBA, lol. Thx for making me laugh, el cid.

    But seriously ... from a competition at the Apollo:


  • queenj
    queenj

    See what I mean ... there are ways to develop Brooklyn that don't have to do with an ugly arena. Just sayin' ...


  • queenj
    queenj

    Y'know, there weren't empty storefronts on Vandy before the last few years, there was a hardware store, some hair salons, flower shops, bodegas, and laundromats. fyi.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    The hardware store was where Vanderbilt restaurant is now. The hardware store was lousy, and went under.

    A fish store was replaced by a coffee/bakery as the neighborhood changed demographics.

    The Haitian Times left after many of the areas Haitians left, and it suffered due to that whole new fangled fascination with the Internet.

    Ah, per-2005, back when no one thought the arena would really happen.

  • tateinbk
    tateinbk

    I always figured Daffodil Hardware was a front. Everything on the shelves was really dusty. I would get keys copied anyway. How far back are we going, because there were tons of empty stores in relatively recent history.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    Yes, and to credit (or blame) the changes on the arena seems silly.

    Such confusion happens after most large developments, and public works projects.

    For example, the olympics will likely be blamed or credited for everything that happens in London over the next 4 years. It is all a matter of the agenda of the speaker.

  • queenj
    queenj

    Seems to me that about three-four years ago, long-time businesses on Vanderbilt were pushed out as rents were raised exponentially. That accounts for a transition time which included empty storefronts. Remember the Jamaican patty shop? Chinese take-out?

    And the folks who would've rented in Manhattan moved to Brooklyn when the recession hit in 2008. Prospect Heights rents probably looked much more affordable.

    The city is always changing, but I have to say I liked our neighborhood a lot more ten or twenty years ago than I do now. I guess that's a feature of gentrification as well. Someone else said the same thing when I moved here.

  • booklaw
    booklaw

    QueenJ said,

    The city is always changing, but I have to say I liked our neighborhood a lot more ten or twenty years ago than I do now. I guess that's a feature of gentrification as well. Someone else said the same thing when I moved here.

    Very astute observation!

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    A NY Mag writer takes the perspective that all of this controversy will be forgotten in a few years, and that the ends justifies the means:

    http://nymag.com/news/features/ratner-barclays-center-2012-8/

  • queenj
    queenj

    I read the article, and noticed that no local residents were interviewed. Looks like they will be booking the arena for many more things than basketball. The writer also emphasized that there will be suites that do not look out on the arena, and they cost over $500,000 a year to rent.

  • chekhovian
    chekhovian

    The writer is a local resident.

  • chekhovian
    chekhovian

    Here's some more cannon fodder for those opposed to the arena:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/nyregion/building-with-weathering-steel-both-rugged-and-rusty.html?hp

    This article focuses primarily on the drip that may occur from the rusted material. I'm surprised the NYT didn't mention the above-referenced Aloha Stadium in Hawaii which is built with the same material.

  • jack krohn
    jack krohn

    Actually, this is good news. The rusty drip will last forever, thus giving Norman Oder material to continue writing about AY for the next four decades. I have no doubt that he will spend his days hanging out at the arena, slowly circling it and taking photographs of every single splotch and then writing 10,000 words about each one.

  • threecee
    threecee

    Jack Krohn said:

    Actually, this is good news. The rusty drip will last forever, thus giving Norman Oder material to continue writing about AY for the next four decades. I have no doubt that he will spend his days hanging out at the arena, slowly circling it and taking photographs of every single splotch and then writing 10,000 words about each one.

    i'm thankful for the dedication of Norman Oder. without him, the most we'd know about Atlantic Yards would come from hard-hitting exposes, such as this NYT waste of space about the surface of the arena.

    i believe history will judge Norman favorably; the nyt, not so much.

  • rogersma
    rogersma

    Threecee is right. For starters, in an era when traditional local investigative journalism is basically dying, the community is fortunate to have someone who is actually doing what local papers would have done in the past.

    (At least for now, The New York Times can still afford to do some good local investigative work, but they can't afford to cross their real estate partner Mr. Ratner. As print dollars dry up, renting out floors in their new building is the one guaranteed revenue source they have.)

    So Norman fills that gap, with professional standards.

    But perhaps more importantly, Norman also writes for other sites and publications that specialize in urban issues and development--taking the lessons learned from AY (how not to do a CBA, for starters) to a much wider audience.

    Just one data point re Norman's impact on the larger national conversation about urban development: a few months back Malcom Gladwell, not a lightweight, wrote an influential piece about AY and the use of sports franchises to bulldoze sensible development.

    In the story, Gladwell said this:

    “Even better is the brilliantly obsessive coverage of the Atlantic Yards project at Norman Oder's Atlantic Yards Report, in which every twist and turn in the entire story has been faithfully and astutely chronicled. I could not have written this without Oder's help.”

    So the community is lucky to have Norman. But more than that, while we're drowning in traffic and wondering where all the jobs and housing went, our experience as chronicled by Norman will help inform future urban development projects toward wiser solutions for all concerned.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    rogersma wrote: while we're drowning in traffic and wondering where all the jobs and housing went

    Are people wondering?

    So far, the only people I hear "wondering" about jobs are those concerned with the least qualified New Yorkers.

    ...the only people I hear "wondering" about genuinely affordable housing are those who seem least aware of how much money it costs to build and maintain housing for the poor.

    While such motivations are admirable, why is anyone surprised that Ratner is building as little housing as possible for those who can pay very little?

    Why is anyone surprised that those with the least amount of skills will be offered low wage part time jobs, if any at all?

    I can't say I look forward to the next publicly subsidized private project. While it is nice to be surrounded by an electorate and politicians who seem to believe that housing should be built for the poor, and that the government should have a role in creating jobs for the least skilled, they don't seem to understand how difficult and expensive those tasks are.

    As a result, the public and politicians are are hoodwinked by developers who sell their ideas by telling their audience exactly what they want to hear.

  • rogersma
    rogersma

    I do think that people in the community at large had expectations of more benefits. Just for starters look at the workers who quit jobs to take part in the "union apprenticeship program" only to find out that there were no union cards to be had. Or the huge numbers who turned out for the AY employment information sessions only to find out that there's probably more room for advancement at McDonalds. When housing is built, it's going to be pretty clear that the odds on scoring an affordable family-sized apartment are somewhere up in the range of the NY Lotto.

    It would be a different story had Bruce Ratner started out by saying, "Well, we're not going to be able to do much affordable housing because there's no money in poor people, and as far as jobs go, it's mostly going to be minimum wage and part-time with no benefits."

    But that's not how the narrative began and that's why a good historical record is so important for everyone in the community. Perhaps next time around, activists will be able to tell a more convincing story at the outset.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    While I would love for the activists to improve next time, developers are often able to discredit such rabble rousers merely by calling them "NIMBYs".

    As more money is wasted on such enterprises, eventually, the public may conclude that:

    -our government is too incompetent and corrupt to help those in need of jobs and affordable housing, and/or

    -that those in need of affordable housing should not be looking in NYC, and/or

    -that entity should be forced to hire those who can not presently get a job at McDonald's.

    At this very moment, there is a big gathering of people in Florida who have reached similar conclusions.

  • whynot_31
    whynot_31

    typo above:

    -that NO entity should be forced to hire those who can not presently get a job at McDonald's.

    report of the building making rust stains below:

    http://atlanticyardsreport.blogspot.com/2012/11/after-pre-rusting-barclays-center.html

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In

Categories