You may think Crown Heights is expensive, others see it as affordable
A recent WSJ article (April 6, 2013) describes Crown Heights as an affordable alternative to Park Slope and Prospect Heights....
"Crown Heights Gains as a Price Alternative"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324600704578400740070824334.html
...It is fun to read the WSJ and know the characters involved
Note, the WSJ site is acting strange, so you may need to google "Crown Heights Gains as a Price Alternative", as opposed clicking above.
Comments
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i see it as getting more expensive, but still affordable
affordability was the original reason i moved here
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Like many of the recent articles, this one continues to focus on Western CH (Washington to Nostrand).
However, I see the real financial opportunities as being in the brownstones that line the streets between Nostrand and Kingston.
The blocks covered by the CH North Association....
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I had to leave because we couldn't afford to buy there. It makes me sad.
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Even basic, 900 sq ft, 2 BR, condos seem to be going for $700k in Western CH.
"Hipster Artist Types" are being priced out of their run down shares.
....it is mind boogling.
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I can't read the story since it seems to be behind a pay wall.
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ha, i was talking about renting, not buying. yall are on another level.
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One can do two things to get to the next level: Make money, and/or be cheap.
Here's a cache version of the article; an example of the latter...
Note, one of the listings featured in the article is between Brooklyn and Kingston. That's how far East we are seeing 2 family row houses go for over $1M:
$1.15 million
1063 Sterling Place
This two-family townhouse contains two three-bedroom duplex apartments. The first floor has a parlor, dining room, kitchen with granite counter and stainless steel appliances, deck and backyard. The rental apartment has a formal dining room and an in-unit washer/dryer.Listing History: On the market for a week
Property Plus: Three-bedroom rental unit with separate entrance
Property Minus: Each apartment has only one bathroom
Listing Agent: Gregory Todd of Corcoran Group
Open House: Sunday, 2 to 4 p.m.
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i'm currently at the beginning stages of the "make money" approach.
that area from NY Ave to Kingston is beautiful. i used to live on brooklyn ave. however, i think it's a problem that there is no promise of commercial activity on NY and Brooklyn Ave.
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Business that are being priced off of Nostrand Ave, are now looking at Kingston.
The 1996 version of me is still afraid of Kingston. Meanwhile, many investors appear to be getting over such fears.
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Im wondering what the maintenance on these places are like.
I looked at some condos in the UES for shits and giggles. Theres a lot of stuff comparable in price. But maintenance adds on another 1000-1500/mo. Even with a 20% down payment you will be looking at 3000/mo
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I heard that someone just bought the old Kingston Lounge at the corner of Kingston and Bergen. It will be interesting to see what kind of business goes in there next. Especially since there is a big gut renovation happening pretty much across the street on Kingston between Bergen & Dean.
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Yes, Kingston is presently getting some major investment, and commercial properties along the avenue are begining to change hands.
Lots of businesses have noticed the residential turnover over the past few years between Nostrand and Kingston.
In many cases, the hue of the people is similar to 2006. But, when one walks the residential blocks, one sees MORE: Shiny doors. Dumpsters. Work permits. Recently manufactured cars on the street. Curtains. Clean windows.
When walks Nostrand and Kingston, one sees: A decrease in drug dealing. Less litter than before. Longer lines for the washing machines at the coin-ops. More landlords that have warehoused their storefronts.
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I think that many of the streets going east beginning at Nostrand are beautiful and well under the radar. Franklin Avenue was ripe for development since there were so many vacant store fronts. Nostrand, however, is an active business thoroughfare. Although I don't patronize most of it there are many people who do.(Oooooo but I do love Golden Place! I think Whynot recommended it. Thanks dude!!!!!) On a side note, I think that the landlords along Nostrand have been very slow in acknowledging the local changes that have been taking hold for years and have not been eager to rent to small businesses outside of what currently exists. I say this because I know a few people who are established business owners who have, over the years, sought to rent spaces for enterprises that would appeal to the changing demographic to no success. Also, certain invested interests along Nostrand believed that the "chain" models would come and be better for the strip (possibly their pockets). Shrug.
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Chain models certainly are able and willing to sign a 5+ year lease, and put down huge deposits that small businesses can not.
On Franklin and Washington, there were landlords that held out for "almost chains" ....restaurants and bars which already had existing businesses in other neighborhoods.
With the exception of the little boutiques and coffee shops, those who are opening upon on Franklin, Washington and Vanderbilt seem to all have lots of experience and capital from other locations.
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Don't landlords have to invest a lot to make changes for new commercial tenants? I could see why they might be wary to take on the risk of a coffee shop that will fold in 6 months.
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CTK-
It depends. Sometimes the renter has to pay for the alterations upfront, to their own contractor. -
I feel like most of NYC is going to look the same in about 10 years. Not sure how I feel about that.
*EDIT* The same as in homogeneous in architecture and demographics, not as in it will be the same in 10 years as it is today. The old cliche about the city losing its charm seems to be coming true.
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Homogeneous in architecture and demographics in ten years?
You expect all the buildings to be razed and rebuilt and the immigrants to move out? I'll wager against that.
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Immigrants in Crown Heights are already being pushed out. The demographics are already growing more and more homogeneous. And when the economics of razing whole blocks of brownstones begins to make sense, believe you me some developer will make it happen. Even as is though, there are tons of big glass ice cubes going up all over the place. The whole industrial area around Bergen and Grand is going to turn into new condos and modern office buildings. So it's already happening.
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The city (and Western CH) seems to be gaining charm in the eyes of some, but losing it in the eyes of others.
So far, I must be ok with the changes: I have not moved.
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Cool The Kid said:
Immigrants in Crown Heights are already being pushed out. The demographics are already growing more and more homogeneous. And when the economics of razing whole blocks of brownstones begins to make sense, believe you me some developer will make it happen. Even as is though, there are tons of big glass ice cubes going up all over the place. The whole industrial area around Bergen and Grand is going to turn into new condos and modern office buildings. So it's already happening.actually, aren't the demographics LESS homogenous now than "before"?
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It's happening where it makes financial sense for it to happen. I don't see entire blocks of brownstones being razed. It's not economical to do that.
Some immigrants are being pushed out, other immigrants are coming in. The city is not getting more homogeneous in terms of ethnic diversity. Hell, Crown Heights is more diverse now than it was ten years ago, by no small measure.
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I agree, Mr. Met. In reality, the area is growing more, not less, diverse than it was. I've noticed that on blogs and message boards there is an unquestioned assumption that when white, college-educated, middle-class whites move into a neighborhood populated predominantly by people of color, said neighborhood automatically grows more bland.
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Bland seems to be a pretty subjective term, and describes qualities some may crave and that others despise.
For example, some hipster-artist types see themselves as original and ground breaking. However, I am able able to categorize them as being lame, and they are able to do the same thing to me.
Diversity is supposedly all positive. And, for a while, we were told to "celebrate" it, now we are told to "co-exist". The question is how small of a space this must occur in.
Do we have to co-exist within a small neighborhood? Or, can we can co-exist in a Boro, a city, nation, or world?
Ah, navel gazing .
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Not bland. And you guys are right, its not more homogeneous. But it is transitioning from one homogeneity to another. Now, I lived on Nostrand not even 3 years ago, and while its changing, from what I hear it sounds a lot nicer now than it was when I left. So that's good. But that change is coming at the expense of people who can't live there. That's bad. I think with better planning the city could have transitioned w/o pushing people out.
Literally all the poor people are getting either pushed out of state or herded to ENY/Brownsville. And I bet in time those neighborhoods will change too. I just think the excitement needs to be contextualized and tempered. The changes are good for a very select group of people, but not the city at large.
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Each poster only speaks for themselves.
The tax revenue might speak for the well being of the city.
The displaced rarely speak, and -because they have less money- few people listen.
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Why would poor people want to live in a neighborhood where the cost of living is going up? How might we "plan" around this? Price controls? Subsidies? To what end? Is there something inherently wrong with people having to adjust where they live according to socioeconomic realities that warrants such meddling?
Can the current demographic trends be legitimately framed as a reversal of the 'white flight' that was a response to the urban decay and turmoil wrought by the tumult of the late 60's? Is this 'white flight' phenomenon and the measure of homogenization it heralded seen as a negative by those who decry the current trends? By all accounts I've heard from long-time residents current and past, this was a more diverse and more integrated neighborhood before then.
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I find the term "white flight" to be a huge simplification of what occurred.
...and it's Monday, so I am in an odd mood.
As I interpret history, the movement to the suburbs was a response to the decline of city, but also in response to an influx of wealth ...one that allowed the suburbs to be created.
Basically, those that could move out, then DID.
Needless to say, not everyone experienced the influx of wealth to the same degree (blacks were largely left out), and not everyone was welcome in the new suburbs (blacks were often excluded).
In otherwords, it wasn't the sudden abscence of white people that made the city implode, it was the abscence of the money and complex array of power that they possessed.
In otherwords, surely some of the White people were motivated by escaping what they perceived to be a certain outcome from an influx of blacks, but a lot were just moving to the 'burbs to get a yard and a driveway.
Needless to say, the outcome was the same regardless of peoples motivation: Cities spiraled downward as a result of what I like to call "Wealth and Power Flight", and others like to call simply "White Flight".
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Cool The Kid said:
Not bland. And you guys are right, its not more homogeneous. But it is transitioning from one homogeneity to another. Now, I lived on Nostrand not even 3 years ago, and while its changing, from what I hear it sounds a lot nicer now than it was when I left. So that's good. But that change is coming at the expense of people who can't live there. That's bad. I think with better planning the city could have transitioned w/o pushing people out.Literally all the poor people are getting either pushed out of state or herded to ENY/Brownsville. And I bet in time those neighborhoods will change too. I just think the excitement needs to be contextualized and tempered. The changes are good for a very select group of people, but not the city at large.
doubtful
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