Select Bus Service and other changes on Nostrand Jan 2013+
Comments
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Grwd, in a perfect world everyone would do the right thing just because. However, we don't live in a perfect world. It's easy to forget sometimes, but Brooklyn is on an island. And 99% of the food, goods and materials consumed here are transported to this island from the mainland. The businesses that supply our stores are on the mainland, the warehouses and factories are on the mainland, and the vast majority of items that are sent here from other countries arrive on the mainland.
It would be great to support business with "innovative ordering systems" that include "a fleet of trucks, vans and cargo bicycles" on that "spends more on technology, but save money on gas and parking tickets so the net cost is the same". I challenge you to find ONE business in Brooklyn that currently uses such a model. It's not because its a bad idea, but rather because that's not the way any consumer markets or supply chains currently operate.
Without getting into too much detail, most goods get to Brooklyn in the following manner 1)They are shipped internationally via water (and to a much lesser extent air)or 2)they are shipped domestically via truck and/or rail. Almost all goods stop at the Hudson River and are brought further east by truck. Shippers want to get goods here at the lowest cost which means using the largest truck possible and loading it up with as many goods as possible. This is actually a fairly recent development. 100 years ago goods came directly into downtown Brooklyn, Red Hook, Williamsburg/Greenpoint, Sunset Park, Dumbo and countless other waterfront neighborhoods throughout the city. As we've re-purposed our waterside property for parks and luxury real estate, we've also made it a virtual necessity to have truck access for the delivery of goods. The MTA wants to develop its own methods for "greening" mass transit, but they are doing so without taking into account the reality of what this neighborhood needs in the way of goods movement.
This SBS plan which takes a highly used bus like the B44 off of a relatively lightly traveled street like New York Avenue and moves it to Rogers Avenue, one of only two northbound truck routes between Flatbush Avenue and Utica Avenue, and a street that already accommodates another bus line (B49) in the name of "better service" isn't a good idea. I believe that ultimately it may make for a better bus ride, but it will reduce the quality of life for everyone who lives in the neighborhood.
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Thanks, whynot. I guess we will all see how it shakes out! I hope that the local business community will actually work together to come to a constructive approach to dealing with the upcoming loading problems, instead of pretending like SBS is not going to change anything.
I think the new "bus bulb" is going to look really nice. Especially with the newly paved streets...a nice facelift for Nostrand Avenue that is well-deserved!
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I don't think the business community ever imagined that SBS is not going to change anything.
To the contrary, they complained, and they -um- lost.
However, they have not yet felt the impact. Once they feel the impact, I hope they begin to speak as an Association. Prior attempts to build a Merchant Association on Nostrand have been less than successful.
I suspect that they will learn that although they are not (and will never be...) powerful enough to defeat the MTA, but might be abel to get some concessions from DOT.
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I predict that as long as there is ticketing people will stay out of the lanes and buses will flow freely. Whynot did the NYPD give a reason why they're against automated ticketing in the SBS lanes? Or at this point are they not even bothering?
tsarina said:
Nostrand and Flatbush Avenues have historically had problems with double parking during all hours due to the large numbers of drivers that insist that even going a few spaces past where they are going is too far. And they would never even consider going around the block to find parking.
Sometimes things have to get worse for the car culture people to make changes for the better for everyone. Perhaps people will consider taking buses and subways when there are dedicated lanes for buses.tsarina you win the daily internets prize! I'm sick of people being too lazy to find a proper parking space. You have no guarantee that you'll get a parking space in front of your door. Freaking deal with it or move upstate where every place has a parking lot and you get your own garage.
I'm surprised more business in NYC don't have the trucks come overnight to stock them. I had a friend back home who worked nights unloading trucks since the trucks only came at night. Many trucks only deliver at night in many other cities. I don't get why it isn't the case in NYC.
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newguy wrote: Whynot did the NYPD give a reason why they're against automated ticketing in the SBS lanes? Or at this point are they not even bothering?
The authority to install a fine-issuing-bus-lane-cameras (be them mounted on fixed poles or buses) seems to reside with Albany, not the NYPD.
Once given the authority, the city then implements it:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/pdf/govpub/68522012_bus_lane_camera_update_report.pdf
Re: Why are they having problems getting authority for the Nostrand SBS?
I think it is a special NYC-NYS-Brooklyn bueaucratic nightmare, and/or the initial approval for bus lane cameras may have not extended to using them on new routes (aka Nostrand).
...hopefully they get it resolved by Nov 17.
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Albany hasn't had a good track record of letting us have automated enforcement cameras lately.
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I've noticed a trend with NYC drivers in the last couple of years. Used to be that if you were pulling up to a place for a minute and there was an open space, drivers would pull into the space, but not park so that their car was out of the driving lane.
Now I see people pulling up and double parking next to open parking spaces in traffic. So now, no one can park, and the flow of traffic is impeded. It's rude and thoughtless, but appears to have become a standard part of the driving lexicon in the city. You see this on Nostrand all the time. Cars in the street blocking parking spaces while the driver blocks traffic. It drives me crazy.
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Let's return to SBS later.
In case people wonder why Nostrand is rapidly changing, I present this listing on Dean, near Nostrand. It is presently listed for $2.2M:

...I don't know if they will have to pay the full asking price, but whoever buys it is going to shop locally.
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Nostrand SBS is a lot more comparable to the Fordham Road SBS in the Bronx, in my book: a densely populated outer-borough commercial strip. I've never ridden it, but it supposedly sped up the busses by 20%, which is pretty good.
I, like most Crown Heights residents, don't have a car, don't drive, and thus am not particularly sympathetic to the driving minority that thinks 100% of the road bed should be available to them, even if it could be used more efficiently to provide transportation by banning cars (such as via bus and bike lanes).
Truck loading seems like it'd be best handled with loading zones as opposed to double parking.
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Ehgee, as a B44 rider what percentage of an increase in speed do you think will be a result of the street repair vs. the other changes for SBS?
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The Hello Living building is now as tall as it is going to go, and they will soon close the envelope:

Construction seems to be well under way at Hello Living’s tenth development, 834 Sterling Place, between Nostrand and Rogers in Crown Heights. Developer Eli Karp started building the six-story, 46-unit development at the end of last year, and now all six stories are up. New building permits from the DOB say the building will have 40,585 square feet of residential space, 23 parking spaces behind the building, and 29 bike racks inside.
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/09/checking-in-at-hellolivings-834-sterling-place/#comments
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I'm impressed! It seems most people are staying out of the SBS and since the lane got painted and I swear less people are double parking! Contrast this to Rogers where people are using the sbs lane for on street parking. I suspect that will stop once the buses start rolling.
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As a result of there being several SBS routes around the city, the SBS lanes are not as foreign as they once were to drivers.
This familiarity may save them some fines, and create relatively smooth service.
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I suspected that to be the underlying cause of the lack of ingressions into the lane. However, I expected them to be used as parking until the very last second. As a result I think traffic is flowing at a better rate on Nostrand inspite of the construction.
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Lanes are being painted today....

photo: BrownstonerReady?
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The space I mentioned earlier in this thread, 722 Nostrand next to Secrets, is looking for a commercial tenant. Photo here is before reno.

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Maybe during reno actually.
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It may be worthy of its own thread.
....few things are not.
Here it is: http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/topic/722-nostrand-getting-new-ground-floor-tenant?replies=1#post-773714
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Details on the Nov 17th SBS launch:
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whynot_31 said:
The Hello Living building is now as tall as it is going to go, and they will soon close the envelope:
Construction seems to be well under way at Hello Living’s tenth development, 834 Sterling Place, between Nostrand and Rogers in Crown Heights. Developer Eli Karp started building the six-story, 46-unit development at the end of last year, and now all six stories are up. New building permits from the DOB say the building will have 40,585 square feet of residential space, 23 parking spaces behind the building, and 29 bike racks inside.
http://www.brownstoner.com/blog/2013/09/checking-in-at-hellolivings-834-sterling-place/#commentsToday, I found a rendering of what it is supposed to look like when complete:

834 Sterling Place
A new ground-up construction of a 5 story Steel & Concrete on Metal Deck building with 46 luxury unit Condominiums with parking lot located at Crown Heights, Brooklyn.
Location: 834 Sterling Place. Brooklyn, NY
Total SQ. FT. 60,305
Structure: Steel & Concrete on metal deck
Year of Completion: 2014
Project Summary: 6-stories 60,000 sq. ft 43 units Condo Building
Company name/Owner: HelloHousinghttp://www.nebglassmetal.com/sub/usneb/project25.htm
Note, the design may have changed since this rendering was created.
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Returning to Nostrand SBS, the DN just published a pretty good article about the rollout:
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Are there certain hours that cars are allowed in this painted bus lane after Nov 17? I would assume you're allowed to hop in to make a right hand turn down the street. Sorry, this is the first time I'll actually be interacting with one of these SBS lanes.
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I believe cars are barred from traveling in the SBS lane during peak hours (something like 7AM - 10 AM, and 4PM - 7PM).
During these hours, cars are only allowed in the lane to make right turns and this is enforced via cameras mounted on poles as well as on buses.
If this opinion article is to be believed, the DOT had some problems implementing the cameras and tickets enforcement when it recently rolled out on Staten Island:
http://www.silive.com/opinion/editorials/index.ssf/2013/10/sbs_ticket_burden_falls_on_the.html -
Drove down Nostrand on 11/1 a little after 5pm. Went from EP all the way down to Gerritsen Ave. Most of the limited buses were almost empty and went one right after another. Did nothing but clog up traffic. Mix that in with the regular buses and it took me about 45 minutes to go the six or so miles. Was a terrible experience. Hopefully this will be ironed out in the near future.
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The MTA clearly hopes you will choose a different route.
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Obviously
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The MTA can't actually say it, but this is basically a process of buses taking over the route.
Car drivers will learn that they are best off avoiding Nostrand and Bedford.
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Well, the way to a better drive for the buses as well as the cars is more PEAs. The double parking really bottlenecks Nostrand and those cars have to be gotten rid of.
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The cameras mounted on buses and on poles will fine people who double park in the bus lane.
As noted in the Staten Island article above, the DOT is not shy.
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