Who here is from NYC and who here is a transplant?

devincf wrote:
Come on. I don't know if you're misunderstanding my posts or just twisting them. I'm not saying to wall off the city. I am talking about the transient types... ...These are not people who give a shit about where there are beyond its proximity to the nearest scenester bar.

Thank you for the clarification. You started the conversation with 'transplant,' lumping a little under half of population in to one group. 'I think that transplants are a problem...' and then you've got EasternPkwyQ blaming virtually all of the rudeness in NYC on transplants as well. Is there any wonder that someone was put on the defensive by it all? These statements smack of 'if you're not originally from here, I'm going to place most of the blame, but none of the praise, for the neighborhood's/city's current condition on you and people like you.'

devincf wrote: And what happens is this: Artists and pioneers are pushed out of their area by gentrification so they move to a new, low cost neighborhood. They bring some life to the area so hipsters follow. Hipsters bring chain coffee joints and places to eat and boutiques and the neighborhood gets written up and the yuppies follow. By now it's so expensive to live in the neighborhood the artists and pioneers have moved on. Begin cycle again.

Sure. Of course. But look at each one of those steps in and of themselves. Of course people are going to go where they can afford to live. If things liven up, of course others will be attracted. When was the last time that you said, 'hey, that place really sucks- let's go there for the evening.'? And then the businesses follow, but the businesses don't thrive unless they're meeting a need or a want. So, now there are plenty of amenities, you have to pay a price for 'em, but if you've got the money, hey, why not?

I don't think that you can fault any one type of person or group for taking that next natural step. It happens and I honestly think that the neighborhoods are usually better off for having gone through it all, 'cause if these 'transients' could afford to move in in the first place, well, the local economy can't be doin' too hot. Guess the only way to really avoid it is to move in to a stable neighborhood, but you've got to be stable yourself to do that...

muteflute wrote:
What I find amusing is that the Village 60's scene is often talked about in glowing terms while today's Wburg hipster scene is derided. So much of 60's culture was just this: people dressing the same, acting the same, drinking the same beer. There are some bands that are amazing and worthwhile, and others--many others--that will never be remembered save for one top 40 hit. I don't see how "hipster" culture is all that different.

thanks for articulating what i was too lazy to say!

devincf wrote: [quote=muteflute]
What I find amusing is that the Village 60's scene is often talked about in glowing terms while today's Wburg hipster scene is derided. So much of 60's culture was just this: people dressing the same, acting the same, drinking the same beer. There are some bands that are amazing and worthwhile, and others--many others--that will never be remembered save for one top 40 hit. I don't see how "hipster" culture is all that different.

I guess I would start with the anti-war, pro-civil rights aspect of that decade. The modern hipster is atrociously apolitical. I'm glad kidicarus found a place where he can be different in the same way all the other people are different, but what's the point if it's all about PBR and dancing at Misshapes? I've worked as an activist and organizer and I will tell you that the last people who get involved in ANYTHING are hipsters. Their ironic detachment won't let them.

um. there are lots of "hipster" bands that ardently promote veganism, animal rights, electoral participation and reform, and all sorts of socially-engaged sorts of things. As always, there are many sorts of people. Those who are engaged (civil rights types, say) and those who are not (like, um, many who just wanted to drink, smoke, and screw). I'm sorry, but the "civil rights generation" is doing a bang-up job running our country at the moment. I don't think there's any real difference.

(note: the below is not a specific response to devincf.)

But this topic has degenerated to a hipster discussion. It was really about transplants. my simple point is this: people move for all sorts of reasons, and just because you're not a native, moved here only for college (or because of it), stay only for a year, does NOT mean you don't care about the area or are engaged with it. I know many native NYCers who couldn't care less about the political debates or candidates, the development projects and so on, and I know many non-native ones (myself included) who are very engaged in our newly-adopted community. It is, as always, too easy to caricature a whole class of people "unlike --------" who behave badly, don't care, and are ruining everything.

I don't mean to sound to damning here, but it's a totally conservative (in its literal sense, not in its specific political connotation; perhaps "reactionary" is a better word. both, however, often go hand in hand with right-wing politics) viewpoint. The "other" is mucking things up. We have to "restore" or "preserve" the status-quo (whether that's religion or separate but equal or race politics ala. nazi germany). It's a total cliche, blaming the "other" for the "degeneration" and "decadence" of a society. For all the time we spend on this board talking about nice bars and restaurants, how nice it would be to have a good grocery store, a new bakery, a new whatever, it seems ridiculous that hipsters and non-native new yorkers get flack for "mucking up" communities.

devincf wrote:

The modern hipster is atrociously apolitical. I'm glad kidicarus found a place where he can be different in the same way all the other people are different, but what's the point if it's all about PBR and dancing at Misshapes? I've worked as an activist and organizer and I will tell you that the last people who get involved in ANYTHING are hipsters. Their ironic detachment won't let them.

wow! this is really funny, because:

1. i hate PBR. PBR makes me feel like i'm at a frat party. typically in williamsburg i drink stella or guiness.

2. isn't misshapes in manhattan? my girlfriend and i went once to see what the big deal is, and it was pretty boring. i usually have a better time in, you know, williamsburg.

3. there are few things i'm more passionate about than politics. i intend on running for some sort of office at a later point in my life.


so good job. are there any other wildly irrational labels or stereotypes you'd like to throw around tonight?

thanks devin

Egads, another goddamn hipster conversation.

Am I the only one here representing Long Island? Show yourselves, people. You don't have to be ashamed.

Also, as for the transplants thing and a lot of the anger that seems to have ensued in this conversation, I think we should keep in mind that Brooklyn is, and always has been, a place of permanent impermanence. I think that's such a large part of what makes the area interesting.

kidicarus wrote: [quote=devincf][quote=kidicarus]hipster transplant gypsies?

i just moved to new york a year ago, i'm in love with it, i think the people here are far nicer than where i'm from (pittsburgh), and i plan on staying here for a long time. my girlfriend is the same way, and many of my friends are the same way.

i'm also new to this message board and shit like that makes me feel very unwelcome, as i'm sure it would to any recent "transplant."

i also enjoy newer art and music, so i suppose that makes me a "hipster."

i guess i only have one strike left.

Do you DJ? That would be strike three for sure.

crap.

well, in my non-indicting brain, y'all are welcome. so welcome!
horray, this nabe needs more DJs, actually. we don't have that many 'practicing'.

nybt wrote: New York was, and is, built on immigration, from both outside of the state and outside of the country.

thankfully, that's this whole country, or I, sure as fuck, wouldn't be here.

EasternPkwyQ wrote: I think you need to take a step back, NYBT, take a deep breath and figure out why you're so quick to jump down someone's throat without reading their statements thoroughly

I think you need to read what you (and devincf, since you grab up his cause in your post. from this point on (including the 'you' hanging outside of all of these parens), you refers to, well, you, and devincf) write. you accuse people of defensiveness above, and now you want people to take a step back? here's a reality check. you are attacking (yes, attacking) folks for moving to a city and a neighborhood and enjoying their experience in that space. you are attacking them for not being 'natives' of this space, despite the fact that you don't know them. further, you are attempting to argue that these people should remain from where they were birthed, which is, really, absurd. finally, you are saying that people should be ASHAMED of being DEFENSIVE about your ATTACK. hrm. guess what? you attack, people will defend. and wait, did I mention how insular and static you two sound? it's really quite unamerican. (OH MAN, someone call dubya, I finally said his word)

roux42 wrote: I lived in Watertown, and worked in Boston. Went to Watertown after graduating from Clark U. Not a big fan of Massachusetts! Really glad I was able to leave and no reason at all to go back. My family is spread out all over.

I used to live on Galen Street in Watertown.
Hated it there.
But it was a step up from Waltham.

Charlottesville, Burlington, Oakland, Portland, and San Jose.

EasternPkwyQ wrote: The sense that I get is that they are attempting to behave as they think New Yorkers should.

Give me a break.

teddyballgame wrote:
Also, as for the transplants thing and a lot of the anger that seems to have ensued in this conversation, I think we should keep in mind that Brooklyn is, and always has been, a place of permanent impermanence. I think that's such a large part of what makes the area interesting.

Heard on NPR once: 1 in 4 Americans has a relative that lived in Brooklyn at one time.

I think all the people who keep complaining about Hipsters are just investment bankers masquerading as "real New Yorkers". Can we pick on the bankers, lawyers, and all other jr. executive types for a while? Pretty please?? :P

maybe we should just stick to picking on the people from craigslist!

caaahyoko wrote: [quote=alafairnadia]
sure. wait. I know WAY too many of them. let's pick on artists, musicians and writers!

:idea: Oh, I know a better one for you! People on myspace and friendster

good one, especially now that I can take the holier-than-thou approach.