Forte Condos in Ft. Greene
Comments
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I don't mind the glass/metal, its the crazy scale I dislike. It's not even half as high as it will reach and it already towers over the neighborhood. And to put my 2 cents in about the location - Ashland is desolate, Fulton is not, so you are both right.
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Just to explain my "desolate" comment one last time, I've been making a mental record of what's around there as I pass by it every day on my way home. To be fair, it's a mix. Obviously you have BAM and Crunch. On the other hand, directly across is a parking lot. To the right of that is an abandoned lot. To the left is an abandoned liquor store. And to the left of that is, yes, another parking lot. Oh, and beyond that is that park, which is great, but since no one's ever allowed in it it's kind of desolate too (in a good way). On Fulton around Ashland, you've got a $.99 store, a few city agencies and welfare offices, some cheap eats and salons, and other small businesses. So no, it's certainly no ghost town--I admit perhaps desolate was the wrong word, since there are usually people around. But it doesn't cry "luxury" to me either. I guess we'll have to wait and see if Forte is able to convince buyers that the extreme price tag is worth it.
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ther are tons of project slated for that 'desolate' area....just call joe chan, the czar of brooklyn development if you have any doubts...he was at the lafayette ave presbyterian church a few weeks ago...
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Actually the park is open for special events...Ten years ago the area was "less busy," now it's borderline booming--in comparison.
Also, I'm not sure the liquor store was so much abandoned so much as restationed across the street (in much nicer, brighter digs). And although the stores aren't top notch (although Follicles and the new spa on Ft Greene Pl would prob disagree), I wouldn't say it's been desolate in at least 20. There's a lot of G train, Fort Green Park, Atlantic Center, Brooklyn Tech High and good ol' residential traffic in that spot. -
Let's not get semantic here. The liquor store moved across the street--hence the building it was in is now abandoned. And the park is obviously not open on a regular basis. Like I said, I'm not going to cling to the term "desolate", since there is admittedly a good amount of foot traffic. And ltjbukem's prediction of increased development in the next several years may well come true. As with everyday, however, I just walked through that area on my way home and I stand by my "shady" description. It is really not a very nice strip at all, I'm sorry, at least by my (apparently lofty) standards. If you disagree, then we can just leave it at that. This is the last I'll say on the matter, as I'm boring our readers at this point.
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The stretch of Fulton from Flatbush to St. Felix Street is chameleon in nature. During a beautiful summer day when it is populated with people enjoying life and the sunshine, the parking lot and city buildings fade from view. It's just good times in Brooklyn.
An aside: At one point, Ruthie's (the fried chicken place on DeKalb) was going to move to the building that was demolished for Forte -- owner had a signed lease -- even had an awning up on Fulston but the owner cancelled it to make the deal for Forte. So much for embracing and championing the character of a neighborhood.
The stretch after 9 p.m. is desolate and creepy. You notice the junky crap that populates the dollar store window. And the now empty Popeye's. You especially notice when someone is passed out in the doorway of a city building. Or when one of the neighborhood's incoherent bum is having a loud hissy fit over an imagined slight.
For my rent stabilized one bedroom and proximity to the subway, I can live with that. But for the kind of people who are going to buy into the Forte fantasy, this little slice of Brooklyn truth will probably disappoint. After Forte is complete, the dollar store will be gone. The Popeye's eyesore may become a bookstore or Peas & Pickles II. Or a Dashing Diva. Nubian Heritage will stay. The city buildings will stay where there are unless Ratner builds another complex that needs to be bailed out with municipal tenants.
And the poster who asked about affordable housing -- good for you. Of course, it's funny that the needs of middle and working class people are being pushed aside for people who have high incomes and/or inheritances. We should keep asking whenever we get a chance -- at least there will be some historical document of how NY became Calcutta.
Because the incredibly disparity in NYC when it comes to housing is a full on farce. -
If it's too expensive for you, don't buy it. I can't stand rent control and rent stabilized pushers. You're not special. I'm middle class ($40,000 salary) and manage. If the rent is too high, I don't rent, if it costs too much - I don't buy. If you can't live in NYC without handouts from the Gov't, then go someplace else. Socialist entitlement mentality is the lazy and fools choice.
Just because someone made bad choices in their life regarding their criminal record, education, family, and etc., doesn't mean a homeowner has to subsidize their life forever and ever. RC and RS regulation should be abolised. Can't afford it here, then move out, a lot of people do - the smart ones. -
Exactly where do you manage with your $40K salary and how many are you taking care of?
As a taxpayer I sympathize with resenting having to pay for others' mistakes that lead to food stamps, welfare, health care for avoidable illnesses etc.
But as a public school teacher, I see how life here starts people off on a race with different starting lines.
Life here is becoming unsustainable for the average person. If I hadn't bought my co-op in 2000, I would really be living paycheck to paycheck just to pay mortage and maintenance at today's prices. I don't know what to tell my new, young colleagues about what to expect, but I don't see them being able to afford living here and having a family.
So what's left? I really wonder what kind of neighborhood I'll be walking through when I step outside 10 years from now.
For what its worth, socialist ideas have had great success in Scandinavia, Cuba, Japan and other places. They bring order to what can become extreme chaos. If anyone reading this has visited Cuba and Venezuela (before Chavez) I'd be interested to hear your impressions .
Venezuela was nice, but there were so many malnourished people, and crime was so rampant that we were made to feel unsafe. People there felt unsafe. This is a capitalist, democratic country with desperate people.
On the other hand, I had only ever heard bad things about Cuba, but when I travelled there, there was no sign of malnourished people, or of people walking around thinking something bad might happen.
There was an expressed interest in Nike and other materialist totems, but on the whole, they seemed very aware of the quality of their health care and education systems. Younger people were chafing to travel and see things, which is forbidden to them in general.
So who is better off? -
?????
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Anonymous wrote: Just because someone made bad choices in their life regarding their criminal record, education, family, and etc., doesn't mean a homeowner has to subsidize their life forever and ever.
And, you forgot that it's also their fault if a serious illness or accidental death takes their spouse and halves their income. Yeah, that's their fault too, right?
Please. -
Any one know if this project is still supposed to have a hotel inside?
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Didn't know it ever was. I don't see any mention of it on the website.
www.fortecondos.com -
I guess it was just rumors that I had heard on Brownstoner. Here is a follow up I found:
http://brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2005/08/condos_not_hote.html -
tommyill, that sounds familiar...The idea of a hotel to house BAMmers who didn't want to make that trek back to Greenwich after a whirlwind night in BK (oh gimme a break, I kid!). The constant condo moolah was clearly more alluring.
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Subject: response to above questions
Some facts need to be cleaned up and some opinions are questionable…. Last time I checked all of the two bedrooms at One Hanson Place were over a million dollars. Forte Condo's two bedrooms start at about $800,000 and all our two bedrooms are corner units. I think a 30 story building in Park Slope, would be at least $400 / SF more. In fact many of our prospective buyers are coming from the Slope as they see the potential in this building and love this neighborhood. Boygabriel, “rate the subway proximity lower than most people� If you need help finding subway access at Nevins Street (a block away) where one can find the 4,5 and 2,3. The C & G (one block in the other direction) on Fulton or the fact that Atlantic Terminal is two blocks away with every subway line and the LIRR access I wonder what would rate higher, unless you actually wanted to live above the Atlantic Terminal, but who wants that?
Many have mentioned the maintenance fees. This has been a common concern that our purchasers have addressed. We have analyzed the competition’s budgets vs. Forte’s and found some interesting comparisons:
1. Our budget includes a 24 hour doorman that is union labor. 110 Livingston, J Condo, Beacon tower and 306 Gold have non-union labor. The Smith and Greenhouse don’t have a 24 hour doorman. Being in 32B-J means that they go through a criminal background check and are typically more professional than the rent-a-guard one can pick up anywhere but they cost more.
2. Today’s buyer should take a close look at how many people the competition is using to staff a building that is at least twice the size of Forte – for example - We have 108 apartments and 7 employees and a budget of $543,000 including fringes etc. the competition has 250 units, 10 employees and salaries of $368,000. Is it quality of life that these purchasers are willing to sacrifice or is the sponsor playing games in their offering plan?
3. Our operating expenses include steam from the city. Other buildings create their own steam with a boiler in the building. This saves the owner from paying higher electrical fees than other buildings with heat-pump units; so a correct analysis needs to include the individual home owner’s monthly estimated electricity payment. Many offering plans don’t give this detail. Why?
4. This budget was also created at a time where energy prices were at their peak. We are re-submitting our Schedule B to include a lower operating expense. This should lower expenses by almost $2.00 per square foot.
Here is a recent press release:
February 5, 2007
BAM Cultural District To See First New Luxury Condo
By Katie Hinderer
BROOKLYN, NY-The Clarett Group has broken ground on its $85 million, 106-unit luxury condominium project Forte. The building, which is being built at 258 Ashland Place at Fulton Street, will be located in the Brooklyn Academy of Music Cultural District and hold the distinction of housing the only new luxury condos in the area, according to company executives.
The project has already broken ground and the first residents are slated to be able to move in this fall, according to David Perry of the Clarett Group. The 30-story building will house one-, two- and three-bedroom units, ranging from 707 sf for a studio loft and 1,435 sf for a three-bedroom, two-bath condo. The condos are selling for $500,000 to $1.3 million. More than half of the building consists of two-bedroom units and 65% of the condos cost less than $1 million.
The project is the first luxury condo in the BAM district, a fact that according to Perry has lead to a steady stream of interested residents. “We are seeing many people who currently live in the area in brownstones or other older buildings who are interested in living in new construction,†he says. “We are also seeing many customers coming from Manhattan to get more value for their money, to take advantage of living in the BAM Cultural District and to take advantage of the incredible views that Forté has to offer.â€
Traffic is expected to increase in April, when the Clarett Group opens its on-site model homes, according to Perry.
The project features a landscaped plaza, fitness center, 24-hour doorman and a landscaped roof deck.
The Clarett Group, based out of New York City, focuses on residential and mixed-use developments in major cities. It has completed $245 million of developments, has $360 million under construction. Other projects the company is working on include the 191-unit condo project at 200 West End Ave. in Manhattan and the 139-condo building at 11 E. 29th St. also in Manhattan. -
Now, now. Snarkiness is not going to help you sell condos.
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You knowI once heard Red Auerbach (legendary Celtics coach), in describing his negotiations to acquire Larry Bird, explain that he wasn't going to agree to any performance bonuses in Bird's contract b/c he was paying so much for Bird that he EXPECTED Bird to meet those performance levels regardless. I feel the same about this condo project. The fact that it has luxurious amenities, even if more than its competition, should be a given...not a marketing approach. You're selling million dollar apartments in dwntwn Brooklyn, for crying out loud! Not to mention a maintenance tag that's only slightly lower than what folks are paying to RENT 2 bedrooms in the area.
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i give them props for coming on a public forum and attempting to explain their high costs. that's a lot more than some developers/sponsors might do. snarky or not...
imo, most fort greene buyers would rather save on maintenance costs by forgoing the union labor, heat pump, etc...show me the money! -
Honestly, I am not too keen on union labor. Union does not equal quality, in fact, since it is hard to fire a union member, union labor is sometimes subpar. Plus they use blackmail/extortion in order to secure raise/benefits instead of letting the free markets decide. This ain't communist Russia.
That said, I must agree on giving them kudos for stopping by and explaining their side. They had no reason to, but they did. -
Subject: C'mon people...
I find it laughable how the wash women on this page banter over something they obviously know little about. Half this page are lifetime renters, and the ones who are against the glass buildings... take a look at what BAM will look like once built...
http://www.archphoto.it/IMAGES/ten/ten.htm
Not to mention the many other fantastic jetson-like condos going up all over...
http://www.southoxford.com/pages/developers.htm
Forte is designed to fit in with the new area, not the old brownstones of forte green. Hence the "Bam Cultural District renaming"...
Get With it! -
News flash: the people who live in brownstones prefer brownstones to the glassy, sparkly "Jetson-like" structures. They're ugly, have no soul, etc., etc.
Sure, plenty of people might like these new designs, but I guarantee to you that plenty of others hate 'em. -
"Jetson-like" structures. They're ugly, have no soul, etc., etc"<--Does this refer to what BAM will turn into as well...will you be boycotting the arts???
http://www.tfana.org/capital.html
It is 2007 isn't it...shouldn't we have flying cars by now? Until then I'd consider a shiny building district a start... -
Hey, I love BAM. Doesn't mean I have to love the design of their building.
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The owners of the liquor store told me they relocated to their new location on Fulton because they're building condos in the lot they left. Don't know if that's true.
I agree that Forte's asking prices/maintenance are too high but I do think the location is highly desirable. Yeah there's a 99 cent store next door, but this is Brooklyn, not the Upper East Side. Some people want Brooklyn to be this sterile, totally gentrified place. I love Brooklyn and moved here because of the fact that you can have luxury condos next to a 99 cent store. They are building luxury condos EVERYWHERE - i.e. NEXT to the Brooklyn Detention Center at the Smith, and by detention center, I mean jail (and they're almost sold out). There's luxury condos in Bed-Stuy and Bushwick. Of course Ft Greene is a desirable area right next to BAM. People come to BAM from Manhattan to see shows. And the LES has huge lots of public housing, and that didn't stop the area from becoming one of the trendiest spots in the city.
I live right by where they're building the Forte and it's a perfect, central location. You can get to Manhattan in 10 mins by car or train, get on the BQE in 5, Ft Greene Park is right there, you're literally next door to BAM and walking distance to restaurants on Dekalb. It's a GREAT location. Part of why that block seems so empty right now is because the entire block is a construction site. Before they tore down the old building, there were always people out going to the church there and in line/outside of a little club or bar that was there - Live something. The bottom floor is all going to be retail, so when it's finished, full of people, and with stores at street level, it won't seem empty, especially if it's true they're building condos across the street too. -
Subject: forte
Have any units been sold? And at what prices? -
Anonymous wrote: Yeah there's a 99 cent store next door, but this is Brooklyn, not the Upper East Side. Some people want Brooklyn to be this sterile, totally gentrified place. I love Brooklyn and moved here because of the fact that you can have luxury condos next to a 99 cent store.
What about the people who would be perfectly content with modestly-priced apartments next to 99 cent stores?....
And who have you been talking to who wants Brooklyn to be sterile and gentrified? It strikes me that most of the response has been from people who are OPPOSED to that notion. -
Subject: Forte message board
I've set up a Google group for those interested in the Forte (people in contract, etc.). Please join: http://groups.google.com/group/fortecondo -
Anonymous wrote: Yeah there's a 99 cent store next door, but this is Brooklyn, not the Upper East Side.
Just so you know, that retail location has signed a lease for a new Union Market location. High-end groceries are coming to the BAM Cultural District this spring. -
madman wrote: [quote=Anonymous] Yeah there's a 99 cent store next door, but this is Brooklyn, not the Upper East Side.
Just so you know, that retail location has signed a lease for a new Union Market location. High-end groceries are coming to the BAM Cultural District this spring.
Did this ever happen?
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