It's over!
Subject: It's over!
It's over. Thanks goodness.Comments
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ditto... i can start answering my phone again.
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i'm gonna miss those calls from al sharpton. where is he now that i need him?
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One thing is clear: this board is apparently not a representative sample of local voter sentiment. I'm pretty shocked at the outcome after having my sense of public opinion shaped here.
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escap wrote: One thing is clear: this board is apparently not a representative sample of local voter sentiment. I'm pretty shocked at the outcome after having my sense of public opinion shaped here.
right? I'm so confused. then again, I had a permanent feeling like this one when I lived in Houston. "wait, what? GWB won? how?" -
It's true. I was completely surprised by how little support Owens and Batson had. It looks like there was a small but very vocal minority.
Oh well, I've supported losing candidates before.
Bill Bradley
Jerry Brown
John Kerry
Al Gore
Carl McCall
The list goes on and on... -
Well Clarke is one of us... http://blogs.nydailynews.com/dailypolitics/archives/2006/08/1199_in_brookly.php ... like how she's pro-atlantic yards, a liar, and perhaps slightly racist. But hey I've grown up around inner city political machines my whole life so what else is new. Welcome to the family Yvette.
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as a seasoned Nader voter who has not yet registered to vote in this neighborhood (my apologies), I encourage the rarely successful idealists to keep fighting the good fight.
After 5 years in DC, I really hate politics, but, while I'm on a little bit of a soapbox here, well, ahh... legalize it. -
well hakeem moved towards heavy crticism if not outright opposition to Atlantic Yards. the top two vote getters (a combined 88%), Jeffries and Batson, are both opposed to eminent domain for an arena, the size of the project and the process.
at least according to this:
http://atlanticyardsvote.blogspot.com/2006/09/jeffries-come-latelys-liar-flier.html
thats not a minority
and the courts will have a thing or three to say in the end. -
Subject: Clarke Won!
Are any of you surprised? Is anyone shocked that someone would run against the Atlantic Yards proposal and lose? It is absurd that people would post random faces of those who have lost elections before and compare them to this! More so, compare them to fucking a Texas town. Atl. yards is a done deal. Over. Done. There is nothing left to fight for rather than elevation of buildings and sunlight. And that is a worthwhile fight. You and I mean YOU (property investors, carriages, etc.) cannot change a neighborhood overnight. People live here, myself included, who are city workers and will not be priced out or forced to move to simply allow more prosperous people to take housing away from this neighborhood, or should, no, shall, I call it the 'hood?' Stop bitching and deal with the grafitti! [deleted] :twisted: -
Well, even a cynic like me could not have predicted such a dismal outcome for the anti-Ratner camp. Using the Atlantic Yards Voter’s Guide that Ratnerville4ever (a/k/a Dan Goldstein) posted elsewhere on this board, it’s interesting to see that only 2 of 10 candidates endorsed by the anti-Ratner folks won (I couldn't find info on the Hamilton/Alabe race, but I'm sure that Hamilton won that, given that she was the incumbent). Of course, this should come as no surprise, given that they have failed at just about everything they’ve set out to accomplish. I guess that’s what happens when you place principals above realism.
The endorsement of dictator-loving Charles Barron is especially curious, given that old Dan Goldstein was a “peace studies†major in college. Here’s a question (which I’m sure will go unanswered): If Barron had welcome a Holocaust denier to NYC and chaperoned him around the City Council, would the anti-Ratner folks have been so forgiving? I highly doubt it. But when the victims are black Africans, suddenly everyone is willing to overlook this flaw simply because Barron opposes the Atlantic Yards. So much for peace and understanding.
The good news is that we now have a proven political strategy. If you want a candidate to lose, simply ask DDDB or NoLandGrab to endorse him or her. Chances are, it will work. Just ask Fernando Ferrer, Gloria Matera, Bill Batson, Chris Owens, Sean Patrick Mahoney, Thomas Suozzi, Charles Barron, Ken Diamondstone, and John Tasini.
That’s quite a list. Keep up the good work, guys! -
ratnerville4ever wrote: well hakeem moved towards heavy crticism if not outright opposition to Atlantic Yards. the top two vote getters (a combined 88%), Jeffries and Batson, are both opposed to eminent domain for an arena, the size of the project and the process.
Please. You've been blasting Jeffries for months on this board, and I've agreed with you. He didn't win his votes based on misleading people about his position on the AY. Anti-AY people voted for Batson. They were just outnumbered.
at least according to this:
http://atlanticyardsvote.blogspot.com/2006/09/jeffries-come-latelys-liar-flier.html
thats not a minority
and the courts will have a thing or three to say in the end. -
Jack Krohn wrote:
Don't you think that this is at least partly because underdog candidates (who know they're underdogs) adopt an anti-AY position to distinguish themselves from the frontrunners and to guarantee the votes of a certain number of anti-AY people? (I.e. not that AY opponents are unelectable, but that unlikely-to-be-elected people try to jump on the anti-AY bandwagon.) Besides, I'd consider Letitia James one of our more successful local politicians.
The good news is that we now have a proven political strategy. If you want a candidate to lose, simply ask DDDB or NoLandGrab to endorse him or her. Chances are, it will work. Just ask Fernando Ferrer, Gloria Matera, Bill Batson, Chris Owens, Sean Patrick Mahoney, Thomas Suozzi, Charles Barron, Ken Diamondstone, and John Tasini.
Carnivore, I'm with you on Bill Bradley. I'm sorry he only ever ran against an incumbent vice-president. Since then, I've always joked that I look for "the Bill Bradley candidate" in any election--you know, the guy who's too nuanced and intellectual for his own good. -
EmilyM wrote: Carnivore, I'm with you on Bill Bradley. I'm sorry he only ever ran against an incumbent vice-president. Since then, I've always joked that I look for "the Bill Bradley candidate" in any election--you know, the guy who's too nuanced and intellectual for his own good.
Another Bradley voter here. Bradley vs. McCain was the best presidential election that never was. -
Why do people insist on taking a single element of a politician's platform or aspect of his character - eg Barron's support for Mugabe - and use it to vilify and negate every other aspect of that platform or character? Does the one indefensible act REALLy undermine all the other dozens of highly defensible acts?
I can get behind a political figure on a single issue, and still disagree heavily on other, less crucial issues. I don't see the need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Barron is a leader for his constituents. He delivers for them, as far as I can tell. Personally, I find his dabbling in geopolitics as a City Councilman quite unfortunate - as well as his obdurate embrace of 1960s era racial politics in general. But he embraces that out of conviction, not out of political expedience or convenience - I respect that, and I respect Barron. -
Subject: DeeDee
I lot of folks on this board were delusional about the makeup of the voters in the majority of the 11th Congressional district as well as the 57th Assembly district. Batson and Chris Owens never had a chance in hell in these races but in reading this board over the past few months you would think they were both serious contenders. The DDDB crowd represents a VERY small percentage of voters in those districts and now I hope they will finally realize that. -
Yup DeeDee, we're nothing more than a gerrymandered appendage of Flatbush and other neighborhoods made up of people who deal with completely different everyday issues than Internet-abled us.
http://www.house.gov/owens/map2002.htm -
Deedee's post had one key word: 'voters'.
The lesson I take from this campaign is never underestimate the power of the party machine to bring voters to the polls for the machine candidate.
People voted for Batson because they were passionate about an issue; people voted for Hakeem because they were told to. -
EasternPkwy wrote: Deedee's post had one key word: 'voters'.
Good point. For example, most union members vote the union endorsements. I know my parents did.
The lesson I take from this campaign is never underestimate the power of the party machine to bring voters to the polls for the machine candidate.
People voted for Batson because they were passionate about an issue; people voted for Hakeem because they were told to. -
People voted for Batson because they were passionate about an issue; people voted for Hakeem because they were told to.
And some of us are passionate about more than one issue. I am anti-AY, have attended several public meetings about it, etc. However, having had the chance to hear from both Hakeem Jefferies and Bill Batston, I ultimately voted for Jefferies b/c I thought that he would do a better job overall. I made a similar call with the Congressional race (where frankly, AY was not as much of an issue, despite all the squawking about it). I am anti-AY but not willing to put a candidate in office solely on the basis of their opposition to it. There are too many other issues that matter to me and to many other people to not vote for who I believe will be the most competent across the board. -
AY is not the most important issue for me either - Albany reform is. Batson stood for that. And in any other year, I might have thought Jeffries did too.
But his wishy washy, 'have my cake and eat it too' stance on AY - a very important issue - showed me he will do anything to get elected. I think he will fall very nicely into the Albany rank and file, and do exactly what Silver tells him to do just like all the other good girls and boys.
I hope he proves me wrong. -
qtrain wrote: [quote=EmilyM]Carnivore, I'm with you on Bill Bradley. I'm sorry he only ever ran against an incumbent vice-president. Since then, I've always joked that I look for "the Bill Bradley candidate" in any election--you know, the guy who's too nuanced and intellectual for his own good.
Another Bradley voter here. Bradley vs. McCain was the best presidential election that never was.
love it -
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=qtrain][quote=EmilyM]Carnivore, I'm with you on Bill Bradley. I'm sorry he only ever ran against an incumbent vice-president. Since then, I've always joked that I look for "the Bill Bradley candidate" in any election--you know, the guy who's too nuanced and intellectual for his own good.
Another Bradley voter here. Bradley vs. McCain was the best presidential election that never was.
love it
mi tambien
[laughing and crying at the same time]
:roll: -
All this talk about Bradley is making me misty eyed - I worked on his advance team his 2000 presidential campaign and was given the job of escorting Senator Paul Wellstone around to Bradley campaign events. Can you imagine a Bradley-Wellstone ticket? But I digress....
Much as both the pro- and anti-ratner camps may have had reasons to spin the election in the 57th as a referendum on the proposed project, it's simply not. From talking to my friends and neighbors pre and post election, there are a lot of anti-Yards voters out there who voted for Jeffries. The guy's been knocking on doors for six years - he's had time to make a good impression. -
i should be used to post-election hangovers, but for some reason i always let myself think there's a slight chance the majority will do the right thing.
still, reading this board i thought i had some sense of the pulse of the community. i thought the congressional race was really between the only two qualified contenders--owens and yassky. (there's some interesting speculation here http://empirezone.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=720#more-720 that yassky and owens split the gentrifier vote, which allowed clarke to win.)
i'd written off andrews, even though i knew he had the machine behind him, as having been tarred by corruption. (now i know the machine can pull 23 percent of the district even with a damaged candidate.)
but clarke?
the times editorial said this:
Her lack of attention to important details borders on alarming. A challenge to Representative Owens in 2004 was marred by poorly answered financial issues. This time she falsely claimed to have graduated from college and then pleaded memory loss.
plus, she was brazenly, opportunistically (and divisely, imo) playing the race card.
that said, i have to put the most of the blame on the electoral system. does anyone know if it's the state or the party that sets it up? how in the hell can someone go to congress winning only 31 percent of the vote? why is there no runoff?
true, it's possible clarke could win that too, but what an insult to democratic principles for the party to allow its nominee to win with so few votes.
wdf? -
Ando wrote: Well Clarke is one of us... http://blogs.nydailynews.com/dailypolitics/archives/2006/08/1199_in_brookly.php ... like how she's pro-atlantic yards, a liar, and perhaps slightly racist. But hey I've grown up around inner city political machines my whole life so what else is new. Welcome to the family Yvette.
I was praying that that 3% difference would some how flip and she would lose. She kills me. She tries to have everything think she's like her mom. But a Una Clarke she is not! -
EmilyM wrote: [quote=Jack Krohn]
Don't you think that this is at least partly because underdog candidates (who know they're underdogs) adopt an anti-AY position to distinguish themselves from the frontrunners and to guarantee the votes of a certain number of anti-AY people? (I.e. not that AY opponents are unelectable, but that unlikely-to-be-elected people try to jump on the anti-AY bandwagon.) Besides, I'd consider Letitia James one of our more successful local politicians.
The good news is that we now have a proven political strategy. If you want a candidate to lose, simply ask DDDB or NoLandGrab to endorse him or her. Chances are, it will work. Just ask Fernando Ferrer, Gloria Matera, Bill Batson, Chris Owens, Sean Patrick Mahoney, Thomas Suozzi, Charles Barron, Ken Diamondstone, and John Tasini.
Carnivore, I'm with you on Bill Bradley. I'm sorry he only ever ran against an incumbent vice-president. Since then, I've always joked that I look for "the Bill Bradley candidate" in any election--you know, the guy who's too nuanced and intellectual for his own good.
Fernando Ferrer wasn't an underdog. He lost because of his very bad politics. -
Smokin' Joe wrote: that said, i have to put the most of the blame on the electoral system. does anyone know if it's the state or the party that sets it up? how in the hell can someone go to congress winning only 31 percent of the vote? why is there no runoff?
interesting . . . and I feel like a dork for not having that grade school civics answer at the ready.
true, it's possible clarke could win that too, but what an insult to democratic principles for the party to allow its nominee to win with so few votes.
wdf?
I don't know of any USA elections that go by anything but a simple majority vote.
Proportional representation is for . . . Bradley lovers like us. -
The election was a huge victory for critics of eminent domain abuse, backroom deals, and people opposed to "skyscraper cities." Jeffries took up all these DDDb talking points and did a great job at obfuscating the issues. The only vocally pro-Ratner candidate was Freddie Hamilton, who got 11% of the vote.
But this was a painfully bitter election for me personally, and for the anti-Ratner movement. We are political novices, and we were crushed. But I have talked to thousands of people about this, and it's not as simple as "the anti-AY people are the kiss of death." When I talk to people in Ebbets Field, Ingersoll, Farragut NYCHA developments. there is no love of Ratner. The residents of public housing trust Ratner less than the white brownstone owners. They just don't know about the project at all.
Hakeem ran an excellent campaign. He didn't have to worry about our little votes. He knocked on the doors of every aparment in Ebbets Field. Three times.
The real victor last night was Vito Lopez. It doesn't matter if you were David Yassky, Carl Andrews or Chris Owens. It doesn't matter if you were Bill Batson or Freddie Hamilton.
What was refreshing about our Brooklynian forum is that it was off the political map. I am going to return to attending to the rest of my life for a little while, but if people have rants or interesting observations, please email me.
I want to learn from this massive loss. We have a lot to learn. -
I was praying that that 3% difference would some how flip and she would lose. She kills me. She tries to have everything think she's like her mom. But a Una Clarke she is not!
I work on women & criminal justice issues, and so over the past few years I've had the opportunity to work with Yvette Clarke on a number of occasions (she was Chair of the Fire & Criminal Justice Services Committee). I experienced her as passionate, responsive, thoughtful, and always willing to make time to hear from the women who had gone through the prison system themselves and wanted to share their ideas for policy change. She may be political offspring, but that doesn't mean that there is no substance there. -
pitu wrote:
According to
interesting . . . and I feel like a dork for not having that grade school civics answer at the ready.
I don't know of any USA elections that go by anything but a simple majority vote.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting
* San Francisco has used instant runoff voting to elect its Board of Supervisors since 2004.
* Burlington, VT completed its first mayoral election using IRV in 2005.
* Ferndale, MI passed instant runoff voting in 2004.
* Berkeley, CA passed instant runoff voting pending necessary implementation.
* North Carolina adopted instant runoff voting for judicial vacancies and will permit municipal pilot programs starting in 2007.
The First-Past-The-Post system in regular use in this country is ancient, simple, and has a lot of disadvantages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurality_voting_system
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