The Corner @ Classon Fulton
Has anyone noticed that on certain days of the week, there are what appears to be methodone patients hanging heavy at the eastern corners of Classon & Fulton? I've noted a number of them nodding off and congregating by the stores on either side of Fulton. This bothers me a lot... for the obvious (eyesore) reasons. How do others feel about this? Does anyone know if there is a methodone clinic in the area, and if so, where?
Comments
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Yes, there is a clinic on Fulton between Classon and Franklin on the south side of the street closer to Classon. Its been there for years (at least twenty-five that I can remember). That is one of the reasons, that corner was always a haven for other types of crime. Over the last ten years most of the other stuff (prostitution was the biggie) has disappeared, but the clinic still remains
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there's also one on waverly and fulton ...
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tish james is pushing to get the methadone clinic on waverly and fulton closed. Not sure what progress has been made. It would be great to close the other one as well.
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Subject: Re: The Corner @ Classon & Fulton
BK Allday wrote: Has anyone noticed that on certain days of the week, there are what appears to be methodone patients hanging heavy at the eastern corners of Classon & Fulton? I've noted a number of them nodding off and congregating by the stores on either side of Fulton. This bothers me a lot... for the obvious (eyesore) reasons. How do others feel about this? Does anyone know if there is a methodone clinic in the area, and if so, where?
Could you please explain what you mean when you say "for the obvious (eyesore) reasons".
I don't find the people hanging around smoking outside the shelter I walk past on my way to work each morning very attractive either but I deal with it. -
I live around the corner for about seven years- they've never bothered me, and they mostly ignore me and my wife. They have their own social circle and have the right to congregate and swap stories just like any other community. They don't contribute to crime at all. The biggest annoyance is in the summer when the store front churches try to save their souls with loud loud speakers and bad sermons
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okay, it's certainly no fun to be reminded of the double misery of addiction and poverty. but the people that these clinics treat are humans, too, for crying out loud. don't you think the term "eyesore" is pretty harsh? i live right by the classon/fulton corner and find the clinic and patients to be totally unobtrusive. just wait; in 15 years people will have overpriveleged, undisciplined children as "eyesores" to complain about, like the park slope boards, i betcha...
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can someone explain what a methodone clinic is?
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(From Wikipedia)
Methadone/dolophine, was first synthesized in 1937 by German scientists Max Bockmühl and Gustav Ehrhart at IG Farben (Hoechst-Am-Main, now part of Frankfurt, Germany) during their search for an analgesic that would be easier to use during surgery (and less potentially addictive, post-op) than morphine. Methadone is a Schedule II drug under the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs.[1]
Methadone was introduced into the United States in 1947 by Eli Lilly and Company as an analgesic (They gave it the trade name Dolophine®, which is now registered to Roxane Laboratories). Since then, it has been best known for its use in treating narcotic addiction, although such a use never became widespread and common until the early 1990's when Public Policy sought to find ways to reduce the spread of HIV and AIDS.
Methadone has traditionally been provided to the addiction population in a highly regulated methadone clinic, generally associated with an outpatient department of a hospital. Numerous clinics start addicts at 30mg and raise the dosage 10mg a day until the addict feels they are at a comfortable level of dosage. Clinics such as these stem from programs set up during the Nixon administration to combat heroin use, first in Washington, D.C., then nationwide. In addition to obtaining a daily methadone dose, some who go to this type of clinic for addiction treatment may attend some type of psychological counseling for their addiction. Some are required to attend drug addiction programs but many are not.
Methadone is considered to be generally effective in management of heroin addiction but reduction of HIV rates from needle sharing is questionable due to higher than average propensity for unsafe sex (Hartgers et al). At proper dosing, methadone usually reduces the appetite for and need to take heroin. However, most heroin addicts report more difficulty in quitting methadone than heroin. While there is much debate over the treatment schedule and duration required, treatment at a methadone maintenance clinic is intended to be for an indefinite duration. Many factors determine the treatment dose schedule, and some follow the philosophy that methadone maintenance treatment is not curative for heroin addiction. -
so basically it's heroin addicts on the corner that has you bothered? i suppose that's understandable, but (and please take into account my ignorance about methadone clinics) isn't it a good thing that there's a place for addicts to go and get treated? seems to me it's better to have methadone patients than untreated heroin addicts hanging around.
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Treated, sure. But the problem is that, as you can see above, heroin addicts often become methadone addicts -- addicted to a free (I think it's free, someone correct me if I'm wrong) legal drug instead of an expensive illegal one. I'm not saying this contributes to them being a scourge upon the city or anything, I just feel pity for them -- I wish there were something better.
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bifteck wrote: Treated, sure. But the problem is that, as you can see above, heroin addicts often become methadone addicts -- addicted to a free (I think it's free, someone correct me if I'm wrong) legal drug instead of an expensive illegal one. I'm not saying this contributes to them being a scourge upon the city or anything, I just feel pity for them -- I wish there were something better.
it's a tragic situation really. there is no good solution once someone becomes a heroin addict.
most people believe that methadone is slightly less destructive to be addicted to, but everyone agrees its a flawed solution. again, there is no good solution. heroin is unbelievably powerful. -
Addiction to methadone is a far better alternative than addiction to heroin. It's really not even open to comparison. Scientific research (and it's all over the web and medical journals, you can find it yourself) has proven that dispensing methadone daily to heroin addicts significantly reduces drug-related crime as well as the spread of HIV/AIDS, TB and a host of other communicable diseases. Many heroin addicts, if not the ones gathering on "the corner," can even hold down a full time job and have a functional social life thanks to methadone. I think it's totally, totally unconscionable to advocate for the closure of these sorts of facilities for aesthetic reasons.
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Well, there is no shame in MY game in saying that it bothers me. The obvious eyesores are the congregants nodding off on the corner. I don't care if it were a bunch of WASP lawyers in pin-striped Brooks Brothers suits....if they're nodding off (i.e., people suspended in mid-walk; eyes partially closed; drool dangling from the corners of mouths; etc.) on my corner, I have a problem with it. I appreciate that these clinics are necessary or helpful, but why are they always in lower socio-economic communities? If they are such a positive social resource, why aren't the more affluent communities building them left and right?
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There's also some kind of lodge near the clinic that rents out space during the summers for parties. The problem is, it's usually to teenagers. So, on certain Fridays & Saturdays...you have methodone patients nodding off in the morning...and a straight block party in the evening. I was hoping to be able to take my kids to the toddler park on the SW corner on a day other than Sunday.
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Brooklyn Boy wrote: I appreciate that these clinics are necessary or helpful, but why are they always in lower socio-economic communities? If they are such a positive social resource, why aren't the more affluent communities building them left and right?
Because most junkies are lower socio-economic people. Got it?
There aren't many heroin junkies in the more affluent communities. -
Oiseau wrote: [quote=Brooklyn Boy]I appreciate that these clinics are necessary or helpful, but why are they always in lower socio-economic communities? If they are such a positive social resource, why aren't the more affluent communities building them left and right?
Because most junkies are lower socio-economic people. Got it?
There aren't many heroin junkies in the more affluent communities.
Bullshit! Most junkies who can't afford REHAB are lower socio-economic people. -
Bullshit! Medicaid will send them to rehab on your and my dime!
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Bullshit! It's not YOUR corner, Brooklyn Boy. Public space is for sharing.
BKAllday, I'm not totally sure what things are like there, but are the addicts actually occupying the playground? Are they harrassing you? If not, then why don't you just take your kids to the playground when you want?
There are lots of wealthy people who are/were heroin addicts. Those people go to rehab and either get clean or (more likely) have long stretches of sobriety with occasional relapses, and then go to rehab again. Methadone is only an option for addicts who don't have a strong support system of friends and family and who can't acheive the kind of minimal stability that it offers by themselves. It's harm reduction, it's not a cure. My hunch is that there probably aren't many wealthy people taking methadone because if you are addicted to heroin for that long, you have truly wrecked your life and finances regardless of where you started out. I could be wrong, though. -
Guest, I'm sure that you know more than I do about the methadone issue -- you're quite probably correct that it's better for them to be addicted to methadone. I mean, it makes sense; I can't imagine that it would be so widely endorsed, were it as destructive or dangerous as heroin. So, yes, I know it's better. But I still hope for something better yet for those men & women.
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The best thing that can happen is:
Get on methadone
Get off methadone
Hopefully during that time they will have
gotten a job
gotten new friends
gotten some self confidence
But really, it's up to the user. You can stay on methadone forever. It's up to you to tell the clinic to reduce your dosage. -
Brooklyn Boy wrote: Well, there is no shame in MY game in saying that it bothers me. The obvious eyesores are the congregants nodding off on the corner. I don't care if it were a bunch of WASP lawyers in pin-striped Brooks Brothers suits....if they're nodding off (i.e., people suspended in mid-walk; eyes partially closed; drool dangling from the corners of mouths; etc.) on my corner, I have a problem with it. I appreciate that these clinics are necessary or helpful, but why are they always in lower socio-economic communities? If they are such a positive social resource, why aren't the more affluent communities building them left and right?
I've never seen the methadone clients nodding off etc. they're pretty responsible, gregarious people, if there were more stockbrokers doing heroin, I'm sure there would be a methadone clinic in park slope, complete with a starbucks and barnes and knoble -
Kevin_on_Putnam wrote: [quote=Brooklyn Boy]Well, there is no shame in MY game in saying that it bothers me. The obvious eyesores are the congregants nodding off on the corner. I don't care if it were a bunch of WASP lawyers in pin-striped Brooks Brothers suits....if they're nodding off (i.e., people suspended in mid-walk; eyes partially closed; drool dangling from the corners of mouths; etc.) on my corner, I have a problem with it. I appreciate that these clinics are necessary or helpful, but why are they always in lower socio-economic communities? If they are such a positive social resource, why aren't the more affluent communities building them left and right?
I've never seen the methadone clients nodding off etc. they're pretty responsible, gregarious people,
I've got to say Kevin...I haven't seen them doing anything other than "nodding off" on the sidewalks in front of the stores. I'm as liberal as the next person, but seriously...there are drug addicts, appearing as such, gathering and hanging out on the streets. I really don't see how to make that not bother me.
As to the people who, like myself, are bothered by this, is there anything that we can do? -
BK Allday wrote:
Open a juice bar/coffee shop near there. That way they'd be off the street.
As to the people who, like myself, are bothered by this, is there anything that we can do? -
As to the people who, like myself, are bothered by this, is there anything that we can do?
There's not much really you can do. This is one of the effects of gentrification. It takes time for a nabe to change. Remnants are always left scattered about.
As far as Meth vs. Herion, Meth is like soft porn. You dont get the full bang but there is definite penetration (pun intended). Basically the gov treats their drug addicts by giving them a less potent controlled substance. Slow death.... but that well bring this into politics and race and an ugly discussion [-X -
So clearly, you guys don't watch Intervention. There are plenty of white, middle-class heroin addicts. The difference is that many of them have the kinds of support systems that don't allow them to hit bottom (friends and family that will give them money to keep them off the streets and from committing crimes to support their habit). Trust me, there are heroin addicts in Park Slope, but they tend to be younger users who end up in inpatient residential treatment (because parents, husbands, and wives have decent insurance) and who return to the community that then supports them with different types of treatment options (therapy, etc).
The heroin addicts on Fulton Street are different. Many of them are long term users who exhausted any options years ago and who now rely on methadone, not as a high, but simply to remain functional. You don't see 18-25 year old addicts there but 40 year-olds that have been addicted since forever.
As someone who grew up in this community, I don't have a problem with social services. I agree with Brooklyn Boy that the problem isn't the treatment, the problem is handing folks a cup of methadone and then letting them walk out of the building. -
Well, I have a friend (white, middle-class) who did the whole inpatient residential treatment thing, the AA thing, the detox thing many times and the only thing that enabled him to finally get his life back on track was doing the methadone thing (and the clinic was not in a middle-class neighborhood).
You usually don;t get to take the methadone out of the clinic unless it's a holiday or possibly a Sunday, as most of these clinics operate 7 days a week. -
A friend who was a methadone patient clued me in to the details of what goes on outside methadone clinics. Methadone is intentionally administered in amounts which will kill the craving for heroin, but won't get you high. Combining methadone with valium (or presumably other barbiturates) DOES get you high. The customers go into the clinics, take the paper cup of orange juice and methadone (mixed together), keep it in their mouths, go outside, spit it out into another cup and sell it, along with valium.
My friend was sometimes sucessful with his methadone treatment, sometimes not. As a junkie, he'd continue the methadone "treatment" in order to make a little money to buy heroin.
To his credit, he stayed on the wagon most of the time though. Like a drunk, he'd have occasional benders.
Street life outside of treatment clinics is NOT 100% benign. -
WOW.
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Anonymous wrote: Bullshit! It's not YOUR corner, Brooklyn Boy. Public space is for sharing.
Sorry for the aside everyone, but I need to address this generally. I am NOT going to say "on the corner of the block on which I live" when I can just say "my corner". If you read any further into that and it makes you feel defensive or insecure about living here or whatever... well that's just too damn bad.
OK folks, and now back to our lively discussion of the pros and cons of having methadone patients nodding off on OUR corners.
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