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what s missing in bedstuy and how could we improve it - Page 2 — Brooklynian

what s missing in bedstuy and how could we improve it

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  • queencallipygos
    queencallipygos
    spiritualguest wrote: I wasn't the one who said "get rid of the churches". I came into the conversation late in the day. I do want to add though, as well as war, religion is also the reason for lots of hate crime, loss of civil rights (abortion, gay marriage) and hold ups in scientific research (stem cell). It's not religion itself, but people's interpretation of the bible, quran, torah, etc.
    Well, then, what makes spirituality any better? After all, its two advocates I've met in here seem to be prone to blanket statements against all followers of organized religion, so if that's what "spirituality" teaches I'm not sure I support that either.

    In fact, I don't see any of the folks from the storefront churches arguing against anything, but I see the advocates of spirituality arguing that followers of organized religion are all uniformly responsible for all sorts of things -- it's looking like the storefront churches are coming out better in the deal.
  • bedstuydoordie
    bedstuydoordie
    realestateguy wrote: What I mean is you have very religious people who pratice war as a part of teir religion, but a spiritual person is aware that war is never acceptable. Religion is man made, spirituality is not.

    If your implying that the (mostly poor) churchgoers at storefront churches overwhelmingly supported the current war, or any major war, for that matter, you're mistaken. African Americans, as a group, were less likely to support the Viet Nam war, Desert Storm, and yes, the current war in Iraq.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    Never claimed to be spiritual your highness! :twisted:
  • queencallipygos
    queencallipygos
    realestateguy wrote: Never claimed to be spiritual your highness! :twisted:
    And I never claimed that you were either, I just stated that you were advocating spirituality. But I'm also afraid you're not making a very convincing case...
  • bedstuydoordie
    bedstuydoordie
    spiritualguest wrote: I wasn't the one who said "get rid of the churches". I came into the conversation late in the day. I do want to add though, as well as war, religion is also the reason for lots of hate crime, loss of civil rights (abortion, gay marriage) and hold ups in scientific research (stem cell). It's not religion itself, but people's interpretation of the bible, quran, torah, etc.
    Religion was also the cause of many good things: The abolitionist movement, women's suffrage, civil rights, and the ongoing fight to end capital punishment.

    What's ironic about this entire situation is that if people do suceed in getting rid of storefront churches, you'll just alienate your new neighbors, leading them to join huge centralized megachurches. The same types of churches that afect social policy in the way you lament.

    And FYI, chances are that at least 70% of the worshippers at these churches are Democrats. Exactly how are they dismantling Roe v. Wade? :roll:
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    Never claimed to be advocating, just my opinion; had I been you would be convinced.
  • queencallipygos
    queencallipygos
    realestateguy wrote: Never claimed to be advocating, just my opinion; had I been you would be convinced.
    Okay.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    This is getting really far away from the original comment, which was that these particular storefront churches divide the community.

    I work around Astoria houses in Queens, with a lot of folks who live there, so my experience with this is general and perhaps not applicable.

    But I have to say that the storefront churches I know about are a real mixed bag. On one hand, they provide a sense of community and a sense of solace that is undeniable.

    On the other, they can prey on the physical, economic and spiritual poverty of the area and are sometimes not exactly looking to truly uplift the congregation. I know that this is a potentially incindiary thing to say...

    ...but to use a concrete example it is one thing to know in your heart that one of your parishioners is a junky and that she has to change herself. And it is another to fervently preach *to her* that she will always be a junky because we all suffer and suffering is beautiful.

    ...Enable much???

    I have seen the people I work with use their pastors' (plural intended) preachings to explain all kinds of behavior that will, I guarantee you, keep them down. Sometimes it feels like a cult mentality in which weakness (like theft, like buying something you can't afford and messing with your already-stretched finances, like getting fired, like beating someone up) is not just excusable, but divine.

    I think that's different than talking about religion in general. That specific kind of "Ministering To The Poor By Keeping Them Poor In So Many Ways" is divisive, IMO.

    I don't know whether that happens in Brooklyn. My experience is Queens-based.
  • madeline
    madeline
    when I say get rid of the masses of store front churches, I say that because many of them are individual corporations that do not benefit the communities as a whole. If you have 4 baptist, 2 penticost, and whatever else churches all on one block, with each preacher interpreting the "word" their own way, there is no way you can call that unification in the community. Back in the day when I was coming up you had 2 to 3 major churches of each religion per neighborhood. A big difference. We all basically worshiped together. I did a research paper back in the mid 80's during the height of the "crack" epidemic, to see which churches were actively combating this scourge and other problems in our community. Out of 13 churches that I interviewed, only 3 were actively addressing any community issues at all. Most of the small churches stayed closed except for Sundays for worship and the bigger churches dealt with their own congregations, not the community around them. Some churces have gotten better over the years, but I will still say there are too many churches in our community not contributing to the betterment of the community.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    I just discovered this cafe on tompkins called Brooks Valley and Bed Stuy could use a couple more places like that, the food and cakes are amazing and the eye candy is pretty tasty too.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    What's missing are businesses! There are more beauty and nail salons than we need!
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    They like to spend money on their hair and nails it seems.
  • turtle23
    turtle23
    deadbolt wrote: They like to spend money on their hair and nails it seems.
    "They" who?
  • m
    m
    I went to the community board 3 website and found a form you can download to request trees. I also went to the community board meeting last night, there is another one Monday June 25th.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    I was there also, what was your take on the meeting? is it a valid forum?
  • m
    m
    I stayed for 3 hours and still hadnt had a chance to ask about more street corner trashcans. I have downloaded the form and had many of my neighbors fill it out for trees. I am going to the next one to have a better view. I found it to be very long though.
  • bedstuydoordie
    bedstuydoordie
    Anonymous wrote: What's missing are businesses! There are more beauty and nail salons than we need!
    If they weren't needed, they'd go out of business. Surely you understand how supply and demand works.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    How about more diversity and choices in relationship to commerce, so more tax dollars stay in the neighborhood. Surely incentive based economics is not a mystery. Look at what it has done to sluggish businesses below Canal St.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    I think something Bed-Stuy needs is to clean up its part of Fulton Street in the south of the neighborhood. I know it great to have minority owned business but how many hair braiding and bodegas stories do we need in one area. Also all the fast food chains should just go away. I REALLY think we need to start with Fulton Street. In a few short years the Fulton Street that we know in downtown is going to go away. Fort Greene is doing a lovely job from Flatbush to Vanderbilt. The next phase is Clinton Hill. They want all the poorer Mom and pops to close down so that they can make that part of Fulton like FG end. Then we get to Bed-Stuy end where there is nothing green anywhere on Fulton. Can we get some trees on these blocks? And what's with all the HUGE SIGNS... I don't think that we are that blind. With nice lighting, nice signage and more trees along the Futon corridor it would help improve the neighborhood so much. Also they need to stop with all the new ugly new construction.. I can't take it... We have so many abandon houses and apartments that we should renovate first. The kids should be in before 10pm in so many cities that's is the law. People that have these yards in front of there brownstone please take your 1980s model car out of the yard. It is really feeding into the steryotype and your not helping me or my neighbors property values out.. I think I should stop I could go on all night...
  • vaguynny
    vaguynny
    I think something Bed-Stuy needs is to clean up its part of Fulton Street in the south of the neighborhood. I know it great to have minority owned business but how many hair braiding and bodegas stories do we need in one area. Also all the fast food chains should just go away. I REALLY think we need to start with Fulton Street. In a few short years the Fulton Street that we know in downtown is going to go away. Fort Greene is doing a lovely job from Flatbush to Vanderbilt. The next phase is Clinton Hill. They want all the poorer Mom and pops to close down so that they can make that part of Fulton like FG end. Then we get to Bed-Stuy end where there is nothing green anywhere on Fulton. Can we get some trees on these blocks? And what's with all the HUGE SIGNS... I don't think that we are that blind. With nice lighting, nice signage and more trees along the Futon corridor it would help improve the neighborhood so much. Also they need to stop with all the new ugly new construction.. I can't take it... We have so many abandon houses and apartments that we should renovate first. The kids should be in before 10pm in so many cities that's is the law. People that have these yards in front of there brownstone please take your 1980s model car out of the yard. It is really feeding into the steryotype and your not helping me or my neighbors property values out.. I think I should stop I could go on all night...
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    I know of many businesses that are owned by people you may not consider the majority that are not nail salons and bodegas. Here is a small list:
    Le Toukouleur
    Common Grounds
    Food for Thought
    Brownstone Books
    Bread Stuy
    Le Chateau de Frenche
    Bush Baby
    Folukie's
    Calabash
    Ibo Landing
    Hibiscus
    Akwaaba Mansion
    Brooks Valley
    Debonaire
    Bush Baby
    Bassam
    Little Red Boutique
    FreeStyle kids
    Heavenly Crumbs
    Solomons Porch
    AfroArt and Design
    Exotic Home and Garden
    Mind Body and Soul
    Shakoors Sweet 2th
    Rib Shack
    Tres Chic
    Denim Lounge
    Think internationally, there are 5 billion people on the planet and roughly 3 hundred million live in the USA. Expand your mind to understand that minority depends on how vast your scope is or isn't. China has a 1 billion people and India and Africa are not far behind. 8)
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    BedStuyDoOrDie wrote: [quote=Anonymous]What's missing are businesses! There are more beauty and nail salons than we need!
    If they weren't needed, they'd go out of business. Surely you understand how supply and demand works.

    The over-abundance of these types of establishments have far less to do with supply and demand than they have to do with ignorance and mis-education. The density of these businesses are as unneccessary as the omnipresent liquor store; and as detrimental economically to the consumer as the latter is physically.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    What is missing is Brooklynian giving Bed Stuy a dedicated page; if Bklyn Hghts Dumbo and Wburg Greenpoint get theirs with so few topics and responses surely it is time to split up the BS, FG and CH page. 8)
  • pitu
    pitu
    PutnamProud wrote: How about more diversity and choices in relationship to commerce, so more tax dollars stay in the neighborhood. Surely incentive based economics is not a mystery. Look at what it has done to sluggish businesses below Canal St.
    Are you talking about the post-9/11 $$$ south of Canal? Wasn't that FEMA?
    What has it done for biz there? I'm not being snarky btw - I'm really asking.

    guru, about a dedicated board -- I don't think we're quite at the critical mass to split this off, but if enough people here think so, pls start a thread on ASK BROOKLYNIAN (at the bottom of the main index page)
    I think we're being smarter about this one -- you've noticed how sparse some of the other nabe boards are. We've put more of them back together to try to get something going like is happening here.

    :D
  • bedstuydoordie
    bedstuydoordie
    guru wrote: [quote=BedStuyDoOrDie][quote=Anonymous]What's missing are businesses! There are more beauty and nail salons than we need!
    If they weren't needed, they'd go out of business. Surely you understand how supply and demand works.

    The over-abundance of these types of establishments have far less to do with supply and demand than they have to do with ignorance and mis-education. The density of these businesses are as unneccessary as the omnipresent liquor store; and as detrimental economically to the consumer as the latter is physically.

    Simply getting rid of the stores isn't going to help; people here will simply go somewhere else, wasting gas money and trainfare.
  • vaguynny
    vaguynny
    Can we get the guys who are on the corners all day and night in front of the bodegas something to do. I think these guys really make it bad for the neighborhood. Maybe the city can get them some jobs to clean up the blocks they like to stand on instead of looking lazy. There is so much work to be done in the neighborhood but I guess these guys are too good for these jobs... I just don’t understand.
  • carmen
    carmen
    ^seriously. I have to go to WORK every day...how do people sit around all. day. long. and still afford to pay rent?! Bedstuy is cheap, but it aint free..

    and honestly, if they want to stand out there than fine. But they need to not catcall. It makes me and Im sure all of the women in the neighborhood really uncomfortable.
  • queencallipygos
    queencallipygos
    Carmen wrote: ^seriously. I have to go to WORK every day...how do people sit around all. day. long. and still afford to pay rent?! Bedstuy is cheap, but it aint free..

    and honestly, if they want to stand out there than fine. But they need to not catcall. It makes me and Im sure all of the women in the neighborhood really uncomfortable.
    Catcalling guys isn't a problem exclusive to Bed-Stuy, though. Unfortunately.

    I've actually found talking back to them helps -- not a whole screaming-at-them thing, and not something you do if you have ANY instinct of danger, but just stopping, turning around, and asking, "Excuse me, would you mind explaining why you just said that to me? Because that was rude." Most of the time they're not expecting a response, and it tends to intimidate them a little. And...they often stop.

    Granted, this isn't the SAFEST thing to do, and if you have ANY reservations at all that this would be dangerous then don't, but if it's one guy, this often helps.
  • anonymous
    anonymous
    queencallipygos wrote: [quote=Carmen]^seriously. I have to go to WORK every day...how do people sit around all. day. long. and still afford to pay rent?! Bedstuy is cheap, but it aint free..

    and honestly, if they want to stand out there than fine. But they need to not catcall. It makes me and Im sure all of the women in the neighborhood really uncomfortable.
    Catcalling guys isn't a problem exclusive to Bed-Stuy, though. Unfortunately.

    I've actually found talking back to them helps -- not a whole screaming-at-them thing, and not something you do if you have ANY instinct of danger, but just stopping, turning around, and asking, "Excuse me, would you mind explaining why you just said that to me? Because that was rude." Most of the time they're not expecting a response, and it tends to intimidate them a little. And...they often stop.

    Granted, this isn't the SAFEST thing to do, and if you have ANY reservations at all that this would be dangerous then don't, but if it's one guy, this often helps.I find that having my son with me most of the time turns the catcalling guys into polite doorpeners. I realize this is not the solution for everyone.

    If you're nice to them (and I mean treat them like humans and not freaks) they will be nice to you, I find.

    There's not a lot of jobs for African-American working class men and there's massive institutional racism and also some intracultural stuff that works against them. It's definitely a problem, not insoluble, but there's a lot working against it, and as long as there's a ghetto, so all this is hidden from the eyes of the majority, and blamed on the victims, it will continue. Did we learn nothing from New Orleans? Oh well, probably not.
  • carmen
    carmen
    wait wait wait
    So I'm supposed to be nice to THEM after they yell things like "damn, thats a FINE piece of ass!" from across the STREET?! I did NOT initiate that conversation and I hate feeling like I can't even wear a tanktop outside my own apartment without being raped with someone's eyes.

    Furthermore- the whole thing about "black men not [being able to] get jobs" is a pathetic and lame excuse. I am a 23 year old woman with pink hair and visable tattoos and I have had NO problem getting a job even with employers realizing that I CHOOSE to look like that (which is one strike against me.) "Institutionalized racism" is not an excuse for laziness or poor behavior- catcalling has nothing to do with the white man trying to steal all the jobs.
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