what s missing in bedstuy and how could we improve it
Comments
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A decent slice of pizza! Moved from Carroll Gardens - -been living in the nabe two months now and just can't find a pizza that doesn't taste like rubber!! Aiuta mi!
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What happened to the flower children? the hippies? ...oooh oooh I know, I know they are republicans.
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Carmen wrote: wait wait wait
Racism is, by definition, an illogical idealogy. So to assume that a racist employer would pick a black man over a tattooed woman with pink hair, based on logical thought, proves nothing about racism.
So I'm supposed to be nice to THEM after they yell things like "damn, thats a FINE piece of ass!" from across the STREET?! I did NOT initiate that conversation and I hate feeling like I can't even wear a tanktop outside my own apartment without being raped with someone's eyes.
Furthermore- the whole thing about "black men not [being able to] get jobs" is a pathetic and lame excuse. I am a 23 year old woman with pink hair and visable tattoos and I have had NO problem getting a job even with employers realizing that I CHOOSE to look like that (which is one strike against me.) "Institutionalized racism" is not an excuse for laziness or poor behavior- catcalling has nothing to do with the white man trying to steal all the jobs.
And furthermore, the "white man' doesn't have to "steal any jobs. It already has jobs. Most significant large businesses or companies in New York is ran by a caucasian, with whom they hire left up to them. -
New cafes opening on Malcolm X and Putnam, Nostrand and Clifton and Tompkins and Hancock and a cleaning service is coming to Hancock and Tompkins.
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I have been holding my tongue about the Institutional Racism part of this thread for awhile because it's unprofessional for me to talk about my job... but I can't anymore. Pardon the anonymity.
I work for a nonprofit that has what it calls a works initiative program--we hire young black men from neighboring projects so that they will have job experience and training. Local companies are involved and they offer up manpower, expertise, equipment--lots of time and money--and these companies don't do it because they can't find anyone else to do their jobs. They do it because they care a lot about the fact that the neighborhood their company resides in has a 75% unemployment rate for African American men.
A lot of questions loom over this project that are hard to answer. Like why does it cost so much money and time to equip young black men with basic job training? Or, why don't young black women or young latino men from the same project seem to need our help on anywhere near the same scale?
I don't know everything there is to know about racism, and I am not denying that it exists at all. I live it. But I can offer you my experience. I see a lot of white people with money that are actively seeking out black men to work for them, even though it costs them more to do so.
So I don't think that it's like some sort of illogical cabal, as BSDOD suggests. The men who succeed at this program kind of get over themselves and learn how to trust that they can do good work and that people want to work with them. They lose their fear of failure and the chips on their shoulders and their own low expectations.
Based on my experience, I fear that "institutional racism" is becoming code for the proliferation of low expectations. It's like saying "I have low expectations of black people, and that's okay because they have low expectations of themselves."
And I think that is a collective mindset that can and must be overcome. -
Each day I go to work and watch two well educated black men both with 10+ years experience on the job (well versed in all aspects of the job) get passed over for promotions because the jobs in upper management are reserved...for friends (usually the children of friends) of the president, the vice president..and so on. I'm not going to call this racist but its something...and Black men don't want to experience it in the work place. The 1st time he speaks out hell be fired/arrested/sent to the mail room to rot.
The men on the corner...they know what happens to black men when they go to work. They know they don't stand a chance once :
(1) white women feel uncomfortable around them
(2) white men begin to feel threatened by their ability
(3) women with pink hair become their bosses
(4) men with visible tattoos don't want them around.
Because they are on the corner doesn't mean they don't know what goes on.
White men (who also tend to have a chip on their shoulders) would not tolerate what happens to black men in the work place for a minute.
These guys on the corner, don't want to be relegated for the rest of their careers to sweeping floors for a living when they know they can do better.
Just my observations and ideas on this matter. -
^they "don't stand a chance" when women with pink hair become their bosses??
That makes NO sense. None. And why would any of that (which makes no sense) have anything to do with catcalling? They're afraid of a white person being their boss, so they sit in front of the bodega and call me a fine piece of ass? I'm totally not following your logic.
ANd FYI- its not just black men that are passed up for promotions in favor of friends of the big-dogs. Its capable women and men of all ages and colors. Thats office politics, not racism. And if someone is consistantly under-appreciated, they should get a new job...not pull the race card. -
"...sweeping floors for a living"? Do you honestly think the only jobs available to black men in the United States of America, in the year 2007, are in the janitorial arts? Wow. Good for you. You're right, sitting on the corner is the truer, better path to spurring social and political change.
Don't get me wrong, I like the guys on the corner. I even like being called "sweetheart" (and once, "Little Red Riding Hood") by the toothless 60-year-olds on the corner. But to suggest that's the only sensible option for a thinking black man...that's a pretty medieval outlook. Sure, the playing field is not level. That's true for MANY people in this country, including some of us fairskinned types. But crashing the gates that keep you from the table (and the piles of money), that is FUN. I say we all try it. -
i don't care what color these guys are, it's creeping to have them sitting outside subway stations all days. and like an above poster said, how do these guys pay their rent? maybe they're smarter than all of us; i wish i could figure out a way to hang out all day and pay my rent.
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The men on the corner...they know what happens to black men when they go to work. They know they don't stand a chance once :
(1) white women feel uncomfortable around them
(2) white men begin to feel threatened by their ability
(3) women with pink hair become their bosses
(4) men with visible tattoos don't want them around.
And what I am saying is that this mindset is so powerful that it can become true for every single person who believes it.
The guys who can't get over this list of problems in their minds create every single situation you describe for themselves.
And every single guy who allows himself to think about other people in a less combative, less self-destructive way winds up getting a decent job with health care and a 401K so that they can actually provide for their families and stop getting harrassed by the man for constant back child support and stop worrying on the corner all the time. Are their lives perfect? No. Does racism vanish from their lives forever? Of course not.
But they do better for themselves, and they find out that racism is not always the reason something didn't happen--that usually it's something you can do something about, like being more punctual or listening better.
And that is much more empowering than sitting on a corner assuming that everyone is out to get you. -
As a black man I just can’t give the guys on the corner a break with not being able to find a job. Many of these men are super talented and if they don’t like working for “the man†they should work for themselves. Many of these brothers are artist, poetic etc and they could make a good living working for themselves. My 4 great grandfather sometime in the early 1800s opened his own barbershop another open his own saw mill and this was in the pre-civil war Virginia when slavery was going on and racism was really IN YOUR FACE… When I turned 30 I decided to go into business for myself and it was the best thing that I ever did. I not caught up in “the man†trying to hold me down syndrome. I am not that talented but I know what I do best can make me a few coins. Many of these brothers can do the same. I know I am sounding like Booker T. Washington but these guys should learn a trade if school is not there thing and make that trade work for them…
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What was missing in Bed Stuy is a web site and a map of everything, but the site is available www.shopbedstuy.com (pardon some errors as it is still under construction and being proofed) and the map should be available the first week of August.
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does anyone have any information about the new cafe opening on the southesast corner of malcolm x and patchen? also, a poster mentioned a cleaning service coming to the nabe. any info on that or a reliable, reasonably priced house-keeper?
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www.Neatfreakscleaninginc.com is the cleaning service, and the Cafe is on Malcolm and Putnam 258 Cafe.
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thanks
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I can tell you what is not missing on Nostrand and Clifton, a spectacular cafe called Tiny Cup. Bed Stuy has opened over fifteen new businesses in the past year, and I am not including the Fulton Street variety, of resident owners. People who care about Bed Stuy and are trying to improve the quality of life. We reach out to the community to support these businesses as they support you; please go to www.shopbedstuy.com and look forward to the map in your local stores about the good businesses in the area.
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This Sat. The Jazz Spot 9, 10:30 and 12midnight three sets of great live jazz $10. cover 179 Marcus Garvey. Support something positive, be strong and creative. Jam sessions starting 8:00pm Monday at Le Toukouleur Bedford and Quincy, bring appetite or instrument. :idea:
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We shouldn't turn Bed Stuy into "Yuppie" Park Slope, though there should be more
- Cafe's
- Book Stores
- Fitness Centers
- Tree's
- Better Sidewalks, and less bumps on the st.
- Sidewalk Garbage cans
&& less
- Churches
- Projects
- Nail Salons
etc. -
Support what we have now www.shopbedstuy.com
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lilaleblue wrote: We shouldn't turn Bed Stuy into "Yuppie" Park Slope, though there should be more
If you don't like churches or projects or nail salons then move to an area without them instead of moving in and trying to take over and change the way people have been happy living for decades. I don't understand you type of people. Do you think people want to move out of the projects? Where should they go? If people didn't want to get their nails done there wouldn't be so many nail salons. If they are there its because people want them to be there. The world does not revolve around you.
- Cafe's
- Book Stores
- Fitness Centers
- Tree's
- Better Sidewalks, and less bumps on the st.
- Sidewalk Garbage cans
&& less
- Churches
- Projects
- Nail Salons
etc. -
annoyed wrote: [quote=lilaleblue]We shouldn't turn Bed Stuy into "Yuppie" Park Slope, though there should be more
If you don't like churches or projects or nail salons then move to an area without them instead of moving in and trying to take over and change the way people have been happy living for decades. I don't understand you type of people. Do you think people want to move out of the projects? Where should they go? If people didn't want to get their nails done there wouldn't be so many nail salons. If they are there its because people want them to be there. The world does not revolve around you.I agree it's a little insensitive to say "less...Projects" because you're talking about people's homes there. That said, no human settlement has been happy -- "for decades" -- with such limited goings on. A place dominated by nail salons and churches is a place where fourteen year-old boys, for one, will cry hot tears from the boredom.
- Cafe's
- Book Stores
- Fitness Centers
- Tree's
- Better Sidewalks, and less bumps on the st.
- Sidewalk Garbage cans
&& less
- Churches
- Projects
- Nail Salons
etc. -
Anonymous wrote: [quote=annoyed][quote=lilaleblue]We shouldn't turn Bed Stuy into "Yuppie" Park Slope, though there should be more
If you don't like churches or projects or nail salons then move to an area without them instead of moving in and trying to take over and change the way people have been happy living for decades. I don't understand you type of people. Do you think people want to move out of the projects? Where should they go? If people didn't want to get their nails done there wouldn't be so many nail salons. If they are there its because people want them to be there. The world does not revolve around you.I agree it's a little insensitive to say "less...Projects" because you're talking about people's homes there. That said, no human settlement has been happy -- "for decades" -- with such limited goings on. A place dominated by nail salons and churches is a place where fourteen year-old boys, for one, will cry hot tears from the boredom.
- Cafe's
- Book Stores
- Fitness Centers
- Tree's
- Better Sidewalks, and less bumps on the st.
- Sidewalk Garbage cans
&& less
- Churches
- Projects
- Nail Salons
etc.
The neighborhood is not "dominated" by nail salons and churches. There is alot going on all over the place if you are open to see it. We have been fine and happy here just the way it was. I do not want to see Bed Stuy just like Fort Greene with a long strip of overpriced mediocre french restaurants. -
To be fair, there's more to Fort Greene than overpriced mediocre restaurants, too.
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bifteck wrote: To be fair, there's more to Fort Greene than overpriced mediocre restaurants, too.
Yes but DeKalb used to have a butcher, a hardware store, a shoe repair guy, a sporting goods store, a liquor store and a bunch of needed and useful neighborhood businesses. Not anymore. The 7 corners hardware store is gone now too. The health food store on fulton is gone. All because of this stupid gentrification. -
annoyed wrote: [quote=bifteck]To be fair, there's more to Fort Greene than overpriced mediocre restaurants, too.
Yes but DeKalb used to have a butcher, a hardware store, a shoe repair guy, a sporting goods store, a liquor store and a bunch of needed and useful neighborhood businesses. Not anymore. The 7 corners hardware store is gone now too. The health food store on fulton is gone. All because of this stupid gentrification.Market forces are a bitch. You should see the Lower East Side.
Annoyed: Do you have the means and/or desire to open a neighborhood business? Another 7 Corners? -
Anonymous wrote: [quote=annoyed][quote=bifteck]To be fair, there's more to Fort Greene than overpriced mediocre restaurants, too.
Yes but DeKalb used to have a butcher, a hardware store, a shoe repair guy, a sporting goods store, a liquor store and a bunch of needed and useful neighborhood businesses. Not anymore. The 7 corners hardware store is gone now too. The health food store on fulton is gone. All because of this stupid gentrification.Market forces are a bitch. You should see the Lower East Side.
Annoyed: Do you have the means and/or desire to open a neighborhood business? Another 7 Corners?
I have already had 2 stores previously and have no desire to ever have another. The paperwork and employee thing is just too much of a headache. Anyway this is all the fault of one particular group of people. Nuff said. -
annoyed wrote: Anyway this is all the fault of one particular group of people. Nuff said.
...I'm not so sure that that's "'nuff said." What particular group of people would you be referring to? -
queencallipygos wrote: [quote=annoyed]Anyway this is all the fault of one particular group of people. Nuff said.
...I'm not so sure that that's "'nuff said." What particular group of people would you be referring to?
the idiots who flocked here in droves willing to pay whatever exorbitant price that nobody was willing to pay before thus pricing everyone but them out of the neighborhood. if they wouldn't have been willing to pay it, people wouldn't have been able to charge it. these people destroyed the community. -
Annoyed,, your logic is flawed.
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gourmand... not i'm not on any one side of this debate but i do think it's weak to call someone's logic flawed without explaining why you think it is lacking.
gentrification is an economic phenomenon that is in some ways inevitable. i do hate to see what is/was be a great neighborhood turn into a bland urban suburbia like park slope but it's all basic supply and demand. maybe the economy will slow and some of this "particular group" will go back to manhattan (or williamsburg or vermont or kansas or wherever). until then hopefully we can at least keep some kind of balance between the old and the new.
there's a fine line where gentrification can be a good thing. better services, cleaner streets, etc are good things. my experience is more fort greene than bed stuy but now it's starting to hit a critical mass where it's no longer positive change. the neighborhood is now "safe". the speed of change has increased dramatically in the past year. it's changing the underlying social fabric of the community and making it less attractive for those who have been around for a while.
i can afford ft greene but in five years will i have to move further out in the borough to have the diversity i came to nyc for in the first place? who do you think will be living in ratnerville once it's complete? is it time to pack up and leave the city altogether as this phenomenon has pretty much taken over? i really hope not but i'm not optimistic...
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