Clean and Articulate

The "space shuttle park" is that little triangular park next to the museum, btw Classon and Washington just below E.P.

I think it's the Ronald McNair Park, officially. His statue is in the park. He was one of the astronauts who died in the '86 crash. There is a painting of all of the astronauts on the fence on one side of the park.

So no one else saw those Thursday night jazz musicians last summer?

I think it’s time to post my comments. Aaron mentioned in the original post a reference to my post in another topic ( http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32793 ) that was an attempt to welcome a would-be newcomer to the neighborhood. Context is important here. When I suggested that the OP of that thread would find his/her new neighbors ‘clean and articulate’, I was referencing a comment made publicly by Joe Biden in reference to Barack Obama ( http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F00E3D9133FF935A35751C0A9619C8B63 ). Biden’s comments were widely seen as a racial gaffe. Those who follow current events and politics may remember the brief ado. I referenced the remark in an attempt to sarcastically belittle Mr. Biden for his comment. Honk if you read my post and understood the reference. To those who did not understand the reference, it may have been interpreted as somewhat less that politically correct, as indeed Mr. Biden’s comments were.

I feel the subsequent dialogue is important, but to the extent that Aaron titled the thread with a reference to my post in another thread, I felt an obligation to ‘come out’. Having said that, I offer you a brief account of who I am, why I’m here, and what I’m doing as your neighbor in Crown Heights.

My wife and I bought our house on Park Place almost five years ago. I was born into a Jewish family in Queens. My wife is from a Christian family in rural Michigan. We’re both ‘white’, as far as we know. We had been married about a year and wanted more space to live in than the small, rent stabilized apartments we each had in Manhattan. We looked mostly in Lefferts Gardens, Bed-Stuy, and Crown Heights, because we saw beautiful houses that were in our price range. BTW, we’re not young professionals. We’re middle-aged (yes, we married in our late forties for the first time) professionals, who never owned property before and have been saving most of our lives for it.

We prefer jerk chicken to fried, but mostly we eat food we prepare at home. We’ve made friends in the neighborhood, and have had quite a few over for dinner. I lend my tools. I keep my sidewalk clean. I know the kids on the block and who their parents are. I can’t keep my wife out of the 99 cent stores. We attended meetings of the Crown Heights North Association and became paying members. I’m now on the Board. CHNA just had a great general meeting focusing on predatory lending to educate our neighbors and help them protect their homes from scam artists and unscrupulous lenders. We had a good turnout. I am not perfect. I am not great. We are here to live. We love it here. We have new friends. Thank you, Crown Heights.

Troof Hertz wrote:

Why not be real here and say what you really think. You hate us and want us to go away.

No, we don't have "HATE" in our blood lkike that. If we hated you we'd spray paint "cracker" and other racial slurs on your homes and other property...maybe even throw those home made bombs through your window...or burn black power fists on your lawns...or better yet, form a 'citizens brigade' where we drove around masked hunting you and after beating you to near-death, hung you from light posts....that, my friend, is how one responds to newcomers in their community when they "HATE" them. Sound familiar?

What you're experiencing is just resentment, which is common in damn near any situation where one interacts with those who are about to displace them. So you guys will lose a few iPods, hear a few negative comments and maybe even ((GASP)) have a bottle broken in your direction. But that's the immigrant experience wherever you go. And in no time, you will have taken over one of the best housing stocks in the city...and you'll be citing any contribution you made to it, no matter how minimal, as evidence that the nabe is in fact "yours" (see, e.g., S. Africa).

Yeah I think I have to agree with what this brother is saying. Seriously, white folks that are moving here from wherever for cheap rent, lets be real, you guys don't understand the culture of this neighborhood anymore than you understand Bulgarian culture. Thats because you're from somewhere else. And thats ok. But what you do need to recognize is that you are not the "saviors" of the neighborhood because of the positive results of gentrification. The problem thats happening on both sides of the argument is that this new people/old timers conflict put the underlying inequality that pervades this country and esp this city into their everyday lives. The difference is that the new whites that move here may or (most likely may not) have dealt with it so closely and have a hard time coping with the reality of it. And the predominantly black people that have been living here and experiencing the result of the inequality in every factor of their life, from the job they have to the choices they have in the grocery store to the fact that the cops are more of a threat in their neighbor hood than a help, have a hard time coping with those they see as the cause of their problems living right in their building all of a sudden. If you are a white person you need to get these facts in your head. I am a newcomer to this neighbor hood and I am a black person who bought an apartment here because I like the area. I liked that I could get to the park, museum and down town easily and also that the people were nice and that I could get the food I liked( both the regular west indian food and the chic new comer cuisine) but the main point of me talking about my background is that I moved here feeling like I was moving to a place...not a foreign country with enemy combatants at every turn. This is the attitude that I notice many newcomer whites comming with which is not right. This is a place. Just like any of the "more desirable" locations in the city so I think the newcomers need to just realize where they are, who they're with and just f-ing relax. The things we can do to make this nabe better is understand each other, not demonize each other and work together to have all the things that this nabe needs to satisfy its residents. 99cents store and nice restaurant because we really need both.

newmovement wrote: [quote=Troof Hertz]

Why not be real here and say what you really think. You hate us and want us to go away.

No, we don't have "HATE" in our blood lkike that. If we hated you we'd spray paint "cracker" and other racial slurs on your homes and other property...maybe even throw those home made bombs through your window...or burn black power fists on your lawns...or better yet, form a 'citizens brigade' where we drove around masked hunting you and after beating you to near-death, hung you from light posts....that, my friend, is how one responds to newcomers in their community when they "HATE" them. Sound familiar?

What you're experiencing is just resentment, which is common in damn near any situation where one interacts with those who are about to displace them. So you guys will lose a few iPods, hear a few negative comments and maybe even ((GASP)) have a bottle broken in your direction. But that's the immigrant experience wherever you go. And in no time, you will have taken over one of the best housing stocks in the city...and you'll be citing any contribution you made to it, no matter how minimal, as evidence that the nabe is in fact "yours" (see, e.g., S. Africa).

Yeah I think I have to agree with what this brother is saying. Seriously, white folks that are moving here from wherever for cheap rent, lets be real, you guys don't understand the culture of this neighborhood anymore than you understand Bulgarian culture. Thats because you're from somewhere else. And thats ok. But what you do need to recognize is that you are not the "saviors" of the neighborhood because of the positive results of gentrification. The problem thats happening on both sides of the argument is that this new people/old timers conflict put the underlying inequality that pervades this country and esp this city into their everyday lives. The difference is that the new whites that move here may or (most likely may not) have dealt with it so closely and have a hard time coping with the reality of it. And the predominantly black people that have been living here and experiencing the result of the inequality in every factor of their life, from the job they have to the choices they have in the grocery store to the fact that the cops are more of a threat in their neighbor hood than a help, have a hard time coping with those they see as the cause of their problems living right in their building all of a sudden. If you are a white person you need to get these facts in your head. I am a newcomer to this neighbor hood and I am a black person who bought an apartment here because I like the area. I liked that I could get to the park, museum and down town easily and also that the people were nice and that I could get the food I liked( both the regular west indian food and the chic new comer cuisine) but the main point of me talking about my background is that I moved here feeling like I was moving to a place...not a foreign country with enemy combatants at every turn. This is the attitude that I notice many newcomer whites comming with which is not right. This is a place. Just like any of the "more desirable" locations in the city so I think the newcomers need to just realize where they are, who they're with and just f-ing relax. The things we can do to make this nabe better is understand each other, not demonize each other and work together to have all the things that this nabe needs to satisfy its residents. 99cents store and nice restaurant because we really need both.


That's understandable. It's rude and snotty to think you're moving into a combat zone and you're better than everyone else because of the color of your skin. On the other hand, when you say how whites living here makes you feel as thou "The enemy is in our midst", then I think you could understand why white newcomers might be leerie.


I'm not saying it's right to shut yourself in or you should shun your neighbors. And I don't think people should move here expecting fresh direct or stabucks at their beck and call. But often, you get what you give. If you go around with the "whites are the enemy" mindset, well, duh, of course people are going to be insular.


Black, White, Green, Purple, we're all human beings here. Just like whites need to stop being racist and start putting away the stereotypes, AAs need to "Get over it" and realize not everyone with blonde highlights attends Klan meetings.

Ilikesausage wrote: I'm not saying it's right to shut yourself in or you should shun your neighbors. And I don't think people should move here expecting fresh direct or stabucks at their beck and call. But often, you get what you give. If you go around with the "whites are the enemy" mindset, well, duh, of course people are going to be insular.

dude
get with the program
we are the enemy, recognize it, accept it and go one step beyond
if you want to make it happen here
instead of picking apart this post, go with it

newmovement wrote: The things we can do to make this nabe better is understand each other, not demonize each other and work together to have all the things that this nabe needs to satisfy its residents. 99cents store and nice restaurant because we really need both.

I just moved here from a totally different part of the country. I've never lived in NY. Where I came from is irrelevant, what I look like is irrelevant.

The fact is gentrification is happening in every major city in the country. It has many colors involved in it not just white into black neighborhoods.

There is a crucial point that people are missing in most of these blogs and it stands out like a sore thumb when read in one long stream. Count how many of the points start with 'I hate...'.

Your neighborhood is changing. Today it is called gentrification, tomorrow they'll have a different name for it... The truth is it was always changing its what a neighborhood does. You can't control the change of a group like a neighborhood not through social interaction of any kind. Those changes are controlled by the collective choices of everyone. You are involved in it for sure but your individual actions are limited by the very nature of the word individual. You can however control the changes in your own mind.

If you can take the 'I hate' out of your statements and put in some 'I love' you'll have done everything you can to make your life and your neighborhood better. If you get a group of people together and put some 'I love' out into the world then you'll have done even more.

Willie is right. I'm a black man, born and raised in East New York, and I don't "party all night long" or and "blast music out of [my] car" or "hang out in the streets all night." I've seen enough of that crap all my life! Like Willie said, that's GHETTO culture, not BLACK culture. Furthermore, it has NOT "been this way since the beginning of time." Take it from me - I'm 44 and have been in Brooklyn my entire life. Some of these damn fools need to stop hanging on the streets all day (and night) and planning these stupid-ass block parties and get some damned WORK!

Let Sleeping Dogs Lie!!! Jesus!