Are These Your Kids????

There seems to be a lot more of this in Park Slope than the World in general. You can see the 5 year olds walking around right now that are going to be that in 10 years. It's a combination of things, but the bottom line is that a lot of people seem to feel that they are harming their children by imposing any real discipline - or even structure - on them. Sucks for the kids and the rest of us.

Subject: Re: Are These Your Kids????

LaSirena wrote: I asked one of them "Do you not say 'please' and 'thank you' to the people who are working hard here? Are these words not in your vocabulary?" She stared back at me and said "NO!"

I finished my pizza and left. As I was going out one of these delightful girls yelled at the top of her lungs "'Please' and 'thank you' my a*s!!. B*TCH!!!"

ok, here's where you lost me.

first, i think a lot of kids, not only those who live in park slope, but also in other cities and neighborhoods across the country and spoiled and rude. trust me, i find the attitudes of many in this generation to be atrocious and sickening.

but.

if i were a teenager, and some random person came up to me while i was at the pizza place with my friends--no matter how poorly i was acting--i'd likely have said the 70s/80s versions of those words.

teenagers and going to be teenagers, piss them off and they're right in your face. i'm not saying anyone should speak to anyone this way, but you kinda walked into it.

i think that when you act all "adult" and "all-knowing" to teens with no manners you're going to get it right back.

i'm not defending the kids at all, but don't you remember being a teenager? your parents were lucky if you listened to them, never mind a stranger telling them they're being rude.

i actually grew up in small town suburbia.

i don't think it's a matter of "younger" generation vs. "our" generation. adults and teens have been having this turf war for-eveh! same complaints our parents' generation had about us, folks. i think the only thing that has changed is the, shall we say, less delicate language of today's teens.

i find that for every foul-mouthed, aggressive teen there is a calmer, more respectful one. and furthermore, i also find that depending on the situation, these same teens act differently under different circumstances. case in point: on the G train, headed towards smith & 9th. large number of loud, obnoxious teens swingin' from the rafters get on. large number of quiet teens, too. half the people in the car are clearly annoyed and/or nervous about the new arrivals. kids are shouting, running up and down, pushing each other, etc. loudest one mouths off at some 30-something guy who gives him the eye. we pull into fulton st. woman gets off, but she leaves her umbrella behind. none of the quiet kids sitting next to her say anything, though they notice the umbrella on the seat. Loud Alpha Male grabs the umbrella, gets off the train and chases after the woman with it. his friends hold the door for him (though they threatened not to), and we all went on our merry way. point is: i think for the most part teenagers are feeling their way in the world, testing every boundary as they go along. i am quick to cut a kid off at the knees if he or she truly misbehaves, but i think for the most part it's all-talk-no-action. that Alpha Male was clearly verbally obnoxious and spatially inconsiderate to the other people on the train, but when it came time to do the right thing and help out a perfect stranger, he was the only one to step up to the plate.

same as us when we were kids.

just my two cents.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm still fairly young (29), so my teenage years weren't really THAT long ago.

First of all, I believe my parents brought me up in a way where I NEVER would have done this - regardless of their presence, and regardless of how much teenage piss/vinegar I had in me at the time.

Second, if I WOULD have done it, I grew up in an area where I certainly would have been scolded by my elders.

Let's not even get into if my parents were to find out, which would have been a strong possibility given the size of my hometown.

Nah, I was raised knowing that there's a time, place, and audience for everything... Be as vulgar as you want to be with your good friends, but with strangers, and adult strangers specifically? No. Is polite society an antiquated notion?

Monty Python's Flying Circus -
"Four Yorkshiremen"

[ from the album Live At Drury Lane, 1974 ]

The Players:
Michael Palin - First Yorkshireman;
Graham Chapman - Second Yorkshireman;
Terry Jones - Third Yorkshireman;
Eric Idle - Fourth Yorkshireman;
The Scene:
Four well-dressed men are sitting together at a vacation resort.
'Farewell to Thee' is played in the background on Hawaiian guitar.

FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You're right there, Obadiah.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
A cup o' cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In a cracked cup, an' all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was right.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Cardboard box?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
ALL:
They won't!

Subject: Are These ...

Just to clarify -

1) I didn't approach these kids. They had pushed in front of me at the counter and were inches away from me.

2) I spoke to them in a casual, conversational tone. No sarcasm, no heavy-handedness.

3) Yes, I remember being a teenager. We weren't allowed to call anyone a "B*TCH" in public, or push in front of a blind person with a guide dog to get on the bus first (which I've also witnessed in Park Slope).

4) I'd feel sorry for their parents, except I think it's their own fault that their kids behave like this.

LaSirena, as much as I can imagine that those kids were indeed snot-nosed little brats, it was you who picked the fight with them. If they were being rude to anyone, it was to the guys in the pizza shop, who are ostensibly adults who can handle their own affairs. Furthermore, you're not their mother, but decided to take it upon yourself to chastise them as if you were. Like I said, no doubt they were brats, but if you stick your hand into a hornets nest, expect to get stung.

Second, can people please stop with the fairytale about the rotten privileged kids vs the well-disciplined poor ones? Ever try to scold a gang of poor or working class teenagers standing outside their highschool, loitering on a corner or in the projects? For that matter, ever been mugged by a kid who didn't strike you as the private school type? Your demands to say "please" and "thank you" will not be met with a humble apology, no matter how romantic you may find the notion of the scrappy Oliver Twist who's rough around the edges but good at heart....

Subject: Re: Are These Your Kids?

LaSirena wrote: Escap, you're overreaching. Nowhere in what I wrote did I extol the virtues of working-class kids over those of kids of privilege - and that doesn't represent my belief. That's your take on what I said - as was your description of my somehow confronting these kids in a hostile way. Just not true.

I've certainly learned my lesson; leave the abusive little monsters alone!

LaSirena, my second point was not a response to you, it was to other posters who brought in the class card.

Subject: Re: Are These Your Kids?

pitu wrote:
I don't romanticize the working class. I *do* have more irritation with our local rich kids who act like assholes because their parents failed them . . .
[quote=Drano]There seems to be a lot more of this in Park Slope than the World in general. You can see the 5 year olds walking around right now that are going to be that in 10 years. It's a combination of things, but the bottom line is that a lot of people seem to feel that they are harming their children by imposing any real discipline - or even structure - on them. Sucks for the kids and the rest of us.

Well...okay, I can't disagree with the gut irritation towards local rich kids, you got me there.

As for the "World in general" comment, I'll guess that's tongue in cheek. At least I hope so--ever come across a machine-gun wielding 11 year old in Sierra Leone? I think kids in the "World in general" still have the upper hand over our local brats on the "undisciplined and unstructured" barometers.

Here is my take on this. Why on earth would the people who run this pizza place put up with this? If I were working behind the counter I would like to think that I would have the balls to tell these brats to get the fuck out of the restaurant.

On another point, lets remember our childhood lessons to never over generalize. Park Slope has thousands of teenagers. I happen to know a few who live on my block and they are perfectly normal teenagers who treat the people around them with basic decency. The kids in this story are not, in my opinion, representative of the population as a whole.

LaSirena wrote: I've certainly learned my lesson; leave the abusive little monsters alone!

I think you did the right thing Sirena. If my kid were acting out in this way I would expect someone to bring it to his attention. Even though the rudeness wasn't directed at La Sirena, she had a right to speak up. They're just looking to see what they can get away with. If enough people shame these kids into submission, they'll eventually get the idea.