The War on ProHo Terror
The Bush Administration has one very effective tactic, which is to scare the living shit out of us whenever public opinion goes against them.
I don't log into Daily Heights (or the Brooklynian as it has become)all that often anymore, but when I do I sometimes feel like George W is making some of these posts. Frighteningly aggressive panhandlers, muggings, most dangerous streets, a guy shot in the face, a mysterious shooter in the rain... is this really reflecting the experience of living in this neighborhood?
Is it a function of having a message board in the first place? I mean, there's a thread about a guy who had a racial slur thrown at his "special lady of the night friend," which is the kind of thing that might get brought up in conversation, clucked about, and moved beyond - but on a messageboard it's there forever, by nature of its presence taking on larger importance. Is that the same situation with the "crime" threads? Maybe you would mention to a friend over brunch that you heard shots. Heads shake in disbelief and a refill of coffee is called for. But on a board it's always there, taking on bigger meaning.
Or does this signify the kind of person driven to post on a board like this? People who worry and get jittery when life here isn't quite like it was in the suburbs?
I'm curious if any of you folks have considered what the deeper significance of these "crime" threads are.
I don't log into Daily Heights (or the Brooklynian as it has become)all that often anymore, but when I do I sometimes feel like George W is making some of these posts. Frighteningly aggressive panhandlers, muggings, most dangerous streets, a guy shot in the face, a mysterious shooter in the rain... is this really reflecting the experience of living in this neighborhood?
Is it a function of having a message board in the first place? I mean, there's a thread about a guy who had a racial slur thrown at his "special lady of the night friend," which is the kind of thing that might get brought up in conversation, clucked about, and moved beyond - but on a messageboard it's there forever, by nature of its presence taking on larger importance. Is that the same situation with the "crime" threads? Maybe you would mention to a friend over brunch that you heard shots. Heads shake in disbelief and a refill of coffee is called for. But on a board it's always there, taking on bigger meaning.
Or does this signify the kind of person driven to post on a board like this? People who worry and get jittery when life here isn't quite like it was in the suburbs?
I'm curious if any of you folks have considered what the deeper significance of these "crime" threads are.
Comments
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Hey hey! It's devin "This is NYC - if you don't like it, move!" cf!!! Welcome back!
Well, dev, I would say that the posts are an indication of the concerns of many residents of this neighborhood. Imagine that - people being concerned with assault, attempted murder and successful murder... strange. Maybe someday us bumpkins will be as worldly as you and we wont care if someone we know is shot or shot at... I've been working hard at it, and I've seen a little progress - I'd only shed a single tear if you were shot! Hey, it's a start!
Seriously, man - this is ProHo. If you don't like it, move.
PS - did we jack up your rent yet? If not, we'll be sure to address it at the next Transients of NYC meeting. -
Subject: Re: The War on ProHo Terror
devincf wrote: I'm curious if any of you folks have considered what the deeper significance of these "crime" threads are.
Nope. I'm comfortable speaking for everybody else when I say we're a pretty unenlightened bunch. Or maybe I'm just projecting. -
Wow, a person from this board ignoring the topic and going personal for no reason. Stunner.
Let me ignore most of the sandy vagina content of your hissy fit post and try to bring it back to the basic topic:
Sure, we should be concerned about terrorism (crime), but is the Bush Administration (board posters) making too big of a deal about it? Are people succumbing to fearmongering? -
Sounds like there's a history here that I am not up on, but anyway...
I can only speak for myself... I posted about Keith (the aforementioned aggressive panhandler) because given the choice of running into him or not, I would sooner not. Now others can make that choice as well. Have I left a digital impression of the neighborhood by speaking out? Sure. Have I mischaracterized things? Doubtful.
My initial response to my husband's concern about living in a place where things like this happen was... things like this - and worse - happen everywhere. And they do. If we can’t come together as a community and discuss/motivate/mobilize, then what is the point of living in a community? Is the idea that because we live in NY we need stay tight-lipped and accept a heightened level of insecurity? Sorry. I don't buy it. -
I dunno; there may be a lot of threads about scary stuff right now, but there still are SO many more threads about positive things about the area.
I think it's great that this board keeps me better informed about crime in my neighborhood than I would be otherwise. Keeping each other well-informed and learning what those of us who live around here can do to be safer and to work to get the authorities to do something about crime in the area are ultimately, in my view, a positive thing. -
I was wondering when you'd stop using your implications to toy with us and let everybody in on the big secret you apparently had in mind.
First off, I don't much worry about terrorism. When my time comes, I'll do something about it if I can, but if not - well, I stand prepared. Given that, perhaps I'm not the best person to respond. With luck, the threat is as overblown as you feel it is.
But anyhow, your attempt to (presumably) shame people who are talking about local concerns by comparing them to Bush is more than a little lame. If there's some jackass scamming or harassing people, or if there's a crime which people can share information on, why not? Nobody around here is running for anything. -
apollonia666 wrote: I dunno; there may be a lot of threads about scary stuff right now, but there still are SO many more threads about positive things about the area.
i'm just gonna quote your whole thing, apollonia. couldn't have said it better myself, so i won't.
I think it's great that this board keeps me better informed about crime in my neighborhood than I would be otherwise. Keeping each other well-informed and learning what those of us who live around here can do to be safer and to work to get the authorities to do something about crime in the area are ultimately, in my view, a positive thing. -
another distinction the OP does not mention is that these things, in contrast the hypothetical events cited by our super fantastic government, actually HAVE HAPPENED.
so talking about them is more like having a knowledge of international politics than like cowering under a dust ruffle out of fear that a terrorists are targetting your driveway. to continue an inflamatory metaphor. -
devincf wrote: Wow, a person from this board ignoring the topic and going personal for no reason. Stunner.
Oh, so the tone of your post didn't at all convey disdain towards those on the board that shared their experiences?
Let me ignore most of the sandy vagina content of your hissy fit post and try to bring it back to the basic topic:
Sure, we should be concerned about terrorism (crime), but is the Bush Administration (board posters) making too big of a deal about it? Are people succumbing to fearmongering?
Your MO hasn't changed - Bring up a topic whose main purpose is to act as a not-so-cleverly-veiled shot at people that you dislike for no apparent reason. And isn't comparing board posters to Bush, when you obviously know the general consensus on Bush in the neighborhood, little more than trolling?
To give your question more credit than it deserves - Have you ever seen the damage done by bullets? Yes, it is reason for concern, and if one hits someone that you care about, no, it's not making too big of a deal out of it. Just because you were born in NYC doesn't mean that bullets bounce off you. Drop the act, man - you would shit yourself if someone fired in your general direction. -
WhyFi wrote: Just because you were born in NYC doesn't mean that bullets bounce off you. Drop the act, man - you would shit yourself if someone fired in your general direction.
hell, i'm a born and bred new yorker, and i KNOW i would shit myself if someone fired a gun at me. jaded, schmaded. i have seen plenty of good and plenty of bad, and i have yet to be calm around a gun pointed at my upper-regions, middle-regions, or nether-regions. dude would be shooting me in the ass, cuz i know i'd run as fast as my stubby legs would take me in the opposite direction!! -
Subject: hey there devin!
Welcome back. So you're on break from craigslist rants n' raves dept, and here to share your wisdom among us again? Lovely. -
Actually, WhyFi, I would call your immediate personal attack trolling.
I am talking about a culture of fear, one that I see promoted fairly heavily here. I am not bulletproof, and I would be upset if a gun were pulled on me. But that's not happening a lot in this neighborhood - it is, in fact, happening less than it once did.
What is really the value of being "informed"? It's all very similar to the "Can your purse make you sick???" scare stories that news channels trot out for sweeps months - what is the real value of half the "Jesus this neighborhood is scaring me" threads? All it does is breed more fear. And anyone who has ever sat on an airplane and felt momentarily nervous because an arab person got on their flight knows how counterproductive the fearmongering can be. It diminishes you and the person you're pointlessly afraid of. Is your life improved because you're now more hesitant about being near a black kid on a bike because a black kid on a bike mugged some people? -
A) My 'immediate personal attack,' came after your wide sweeping and personal attacks in the original post -
devincf wrote: the kind of person driven to post on a board like this? People who worry and get jittery when life here isn't quite like it was in the suburbs?
my italics.devincf wrote: "special lady of the night friend,"
Calling someone's girl a hooker... classy of you.devincf wrote: ...these "crime" threads...
as if they're not really crimes...
If you really wanted to have a serious discussion, why did you lace your post with insults?
Maybe the discussions are making you more fearful, but don't project that on others.
C) No value to being informed? That's just too stupid to even address. -
devincf wrote: Actually, WhyFi, I would call your immediate personal attack trolling.
no, you still win.
i thought whyfi was being quick on the trigger till i read your responses.
information about the place you live is valuable -- well, at any rate, information about the place I live is valuable to me. that includes when the new korean place opens, what trains are running, and yes, whether there is an uptick in violent behavior and whether there are some folks around about whom it is better to be forewarned.
if that information is not valuable to you, then go read something else. -
It's interesting - if this had been a thread about the network news fearmongering, I suspect that the responses would have been different. But when it's about individuals here, the old hive mind snaps into play again. This is a legitimate question about the function of neighborhood based messageboards, as well as all media in general. But go ahead and attack me instead! It'll make you feel better. PS, watch out for those kids on the corner.
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WhyFi wrote: [quote=devincf]Wow, a person from this board ignoring the topic and going personal for no reason. Stunner.
Oh, so the tone of your post didn't at all convey disdain towards those on the board that shared their experiences?
Let me ignore most of the sandy vagina content of your hissy fit post and try to bring it back to the basic topic:
Sure, we should be concerned about terrorism (crime), but is the Bush Administration (board posters) making too big of a deal about it? Are people succumbing to fearmongering?
Your MO hasn't changed - Bring up a topic whose main purpose is to act as a not-so-cleverly-veiled shot at people that you dislike for no apparent reason. And isn't comparing board posters to Bush, when you obviously know the general consensus on Bush in the neighborhood, little more than trolling?
To give your question more credit than it deserves - Have you ever seen the damage done by bullets? Yes, it is reason for concern, and if one hits someone that you care about, no, it's not making too big of a deal out of it. Just because you were born in NYC doesn't mean that bullets bounce off you. Drop the act, man - you would shit yourself if someone fired in your general direction.
.....and.......scene. -
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!
Dude, you are one of a kind. I love it.devincf wrote: This is a legitimate question about the function of neighborhood based messageboards, as well as all media in general.
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lol, you're right muk! Boards like this should only exist to reinforce our own smug hipsterism! Who wants to go to happy hour and then post about how much we drank, which will totally validate ourselves!
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BrookFetish wrote: [quote=WhyFi][quote=devincf]Wow, a person from this board ignoring the topic and going personal for no reason. Stunner.
Oh, so the tone of your post didn't at all convey disdain towards those on the board that shared their experiences?
Let me ignore most of the sandy vagina content of your hissy fit post and try to bring it back to the basic topic:
Sure, we should be concerned about terrorism (crime), but is the Bush Administration (board posters) making too big of a deal about it? Are people succumbing to fearmongering?
Your MO hasn't changed - Bring up a topic whose main purpose is to act as a not-so-cleverly-veiled shot at people that you dislike for no apparent reason. And isn't comparing board posters to Bush, when you obviously know the general consensus on Bush in the neighborhood, little more than trolling?
To give your question more credit than it deserves - Have you ever seen the damage done by bullets? Yes, it is reason for concern, and if one hits someone that you care about, no, it's not making too big of a deal out of it. Just because you were born in NYC doesn't mean that bullets bounce off you. Drop the act, man - you would shit yourself if someone fired in your general direction.
.....and.......scene.
And scene what, exactly? Is the concept here that ProHo is the Wild West, it's Harlem during the crack wars? Are we running to do our organic produce shopping while ducking a hail of bullets? Yeah, getting shot is pretty serious. Guess what - statistically speaking, pretty much nobody is getting shot. It's this sort of elevation of nuisance criminal activity - ie, there's an aggressive panhandler, but everyone is going to try to frame the debate in terms of having a cap popped in your skull - that I'm talking about. -
devincf wrote: This is a legitimate question about the function of neighborhood based messageboards, as well as all media in general.
WhyFi wrote: If you really wanted to have a serious discussion, why did you lace your post with insults?
You didn't answer that the first time around, chief.devincf wrote: ...ie, there's an aggressive panhandler, but everyone is going to try to frame the debate in terms of having a cap popped in your skull...
Let's forget about guns; I say again - drop the act. I've met Keith, and you would soil yourself if you ran in to him. Hell, you would soil yourself if you ran in to me. -
Truth be told, all the crime postings are an elaborate scam to send the perception that PH is too dangerous for baby-and-buggy set to move in, jack up the rents and bring a wave of development with them. :twisted:
What good is it to be "informed" ? -- I can't believe a person actually put that in writing. Wow. :shock: -
sterling2000 wrote: Truth be told, all the crime postings are an elaborate scam to send the perception that PH is too dangerous for baby-and-buggy set to move in, jack up the rents and bring a wave of development with them. :twisted:
and, conversely, all posts about good things are counter-attacks from corcoran and affiliates. -
sterling2000 wrote: Truth be told, all the crime postings are an elaborate scam to send the perception that PH is too dangerous for baby-and-buggy set to move in, jack up the rents and bring a wave of development with them. :twisted:
I put informed in quotes for a reason. You're not being informed. You're being scared. What does being told of a mugging on St Marks do to 'inform' you? It makes you scared, and maybe it'll make you avoid St Marks. But it's like when the govt announces plans for a nuke were found in an Al Qaeda safehouse... OK, and now what? What is gained from that information? More fear.
What good is it to be "informed" ? -- I can't believe a person actually put that in writing. Wow. :shock:
I have run into Keith. I survived the encounter and never felt the need to hysterically pass it on. -
devincf wrote: Are people succumbing to fearmongering?
fear-mongering: spreading discreditable, misrepresentative information designed to induce fear and apprehension
The keywords here being 'discreditable' and 'misrepresentative'. Thus the word fear-mongering applies accurately to the tactics of the Rove/Bush war machine, and quite possibly to this post, whose author has not yet returned to provide answers to the many lingering questions left in its wake: GUN PULLED AND FIRED ON ME ON THURSDAY
But by definition, fear-mongering cannot be used to describe discussion of actual, and in many cases, documented verbal and physical attacks and killings occurring in our neighborhood(s). -
I hate local news programs that only talk about people getting killed and which leave viewers in a perpetual state of fear. Bush & company do the same.
If crime was the only discussion on this board, I would agree with devincf, and I would probably just ignore the Brooklynian. But I will put up with the billionth posting about the Burrito Bar sign in order to put up my political rants.
Sometimes we have mini-crime waves- somebody will get the swell idea to smash car windows or break into front windows. These don't effect my life, but I do want to know about them.
I posted something a few months ago because I heard of two cases of buildings being broken into. But by posting it here, I found out that these were isolated incidents. That was good to know, and I could honestly tell my neighbor who was a victim of the break-in that there was no pattern.
But ya gotta admit that someone shooting a gun on the street is pretty dramatic. But if someone is getting over-paranoid, I will be glad to ignore them. -
devincf wrote: [quote=sterling2000]Truth be told, all the crime postings are an elaborate scam to send the perception that PH is too dangerous for baby-and-buggy set to move in, jack up the rents and bring a wave of development with them. :twisted:
I put informed in quotes for a reason. You're not being informed. You're being scared. What does being told of a mugging on St Marks do to 'inform' you? It makes you scared, and maybe it'll make you avoid St Marks. But it's like when the govt announces plans for a nuke were found in an Al Qaeda safehouse... OK, and now what? What is gained from that information? More fear.
What good is it to be "informed" ? -- I can't believe a person actually put that in writing. Wow. :shock:
I have run into Keith. I survived the encounter and never felt the need to hysterically pass it on.
Do you know for a fact that I am scared? No - I like to hear about what is happening in my neighborhood. We call it blogging and before this they called it neighborhood gossip - so if you believe everything you read I have two bridges to sell ya
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ana.log wrote: [quote=devincf]Are people succumbing to fearmongering?
fear-mongering: spreading discreditable, misrepresentative information designed to induce fear and apprehension
The keywords here being 'discreditable' and 'misrepresentative'. Thus the word fear-mongering applies accurately to the tactics of the Rove/Bush war machine, and quite possibly to this post, whose author has not yet returned to provide answers to the many lingering questions left in its wake: GUN PULLED AND FIRED ON ME ON THURSDAY
But by definition, fear-mongering cannot be used to describe discussion of actual, and in many cases, documented verbal and physical attacks and killings occurring in our neighborhood(s).
The other key words are fear and apprehension.
I remember when jayce posted about being mugged on Park between Carlton and Vanderbilt. That didn't cause anyone to stop walking on that block. I don't think that it caused fear or apprehension, either. At least, I didn't see an increased number of jumpy folks walking to the 7th avenue station. What it did, at least for me, was serve as a reminder that despite the idyllic surroundings during my oblivious morning walks to the train, there are other folks around me and that I should pay attention to them. most of them don't mean me (or anyone) any harm but, just like everywhere else in the world, there are a few bad apples. awareness is NOT fear or apprehension. being informed does not mean being afraid. -
As the founder of these boards, I'm obviously a bit biased... but I think these boards are pretty much the opposite of media hype, manufactured news, and "fear mongering." These are reports written by actual citizens, not journalists - though an alarmingly large number of people living in PS/PH seem to be journalists!
Anyhow, the boards work like this: Real people in the neighborhood decide what merits attention, and how much attention to give it; and then, real people respond with the level of attention they think is appropriate. There is very little in the way of an intermediary between you and the news.
If an initial post comes off as overhyped, then others are very quick to cut it down (witness the reaction to the "I WAS SHOT AT" post today, which regulars almost instantaneously flagged as being suspect). [edit: Paul Banks has come out to dispel the concerns of the doubters... annoying for Paul, to be sure, particularly with the tone of some of the posters. Nevertheless, the story has now been vetted... the "hype control" works!]
And in terms of being frightened vs. being informed... We are being informed. But at the same time, I don't understand why it would be such a bad thing to be "frightened" by the fact that 3 people got mugged at gunpoint along a route that I walk every day. I'd much prefer knowing that crimes and dangerous situations are happening all around me. I don't want to be lulled into a false sense of security.
Sincerely,
Karl Rove -
Today I woke up, had breakfast, then walked to the stationery store at Flatbush and 7th to buy some padded mailers. Then I came up, packed up some books I'd sold, and walked over to F&B Enterprises to mail them. Then I had lunch, checked the mail, made a few phone calls and did some work. Now I'm posting here.
All true and representative of my scintillating life here in PH. Whether it is newsworthy or discussionworthy, though... -
EmilyM wrote: Today I woke up, had breakfast, then walked to the stationery store at Flatbush and 7th to buy some padded mailers. Then I came up, packed up some books I'd sold, and walked over to F&B Enterprises to mail them. Then I had lunch, checked the mail, made a few phone calls and did some work. Now I'm posting here.
it's terrifying. I think I'm going to go cower under the BQE.
All true and representative of my scintillating life here in PH. Whether it is newsworthy or discussionworthy, though...
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