Fear of Pitbull

Precious Williams wrote: [quote=steve][quote=Yavel]Thanks for posting the pic Why Fi Those roving gangs of kids with unleashed pitbulls have really become a problem in Prospect Park.

I'm curious about why you guys choose to own pitbulls though. People in my neighborhood seem to like them because they're intimidating and aggressive. Why not go for a breed that comes with less baggage?

Good question Yavel! Unfortunately, I doubt you will get much more than a lecture on rescuing dogs and how many pit bulls are abused and have needs and so on.

Frankly, are there any traits endemic to the breed that make it a particularly good dog to own? They are very loyal, but most dogs are, the only difference is this one can back it up physically. Are they particularly smart or anything?

Sadly, I think most of the responsible dog owners getting pits are lookign to make a statement, either of their laughable street cred, or that they do not have a yuppie retriever or am hip toy dog.

For what it's worth, my dog is a mutt, which does reflect my own disdain of purebred anything.

If people are adopting pits and pit mixes from the pound to save them from being put down, that's a good thing. But I personally would be scared to have a pit or pit mix in my home and not know anything about its background. Its a fact that some pits are spefifically bred for aggressive traits. How do you know that's not what you're getting? How do you know that one day, something might happen that triggers it?

More or less my point, and while this is true for all dogs, particularly all rescued dogs (fair disclosure: mine nips from time to time) I'm not sure while otherwise intelligent people would get a dog that is statistically more likely to go off.

steve wrote: [quote=Precious Williams][quote=steve][quote=Yavel]Thanks for posting the pic Why Fi Those roving gangs of kids with unleashed pitbulls have really become a problem in Prospect Park.

I'm curious about why you guys choose to own pitbulls though. People in my neighborhood seem to like them because they're intimidating and aggressive. Why not go for a breed that comes with less baggage?

Good question Yavel! Unfortunately, I doubt you will get much more than a lecture on rescuing dogs and how many pit bulls are abused and have needs and so on.

Frankly, are there any traits endemic to the breed that make it a particularly good dog to own? They are very loyal, but most dogs are, the only difference is this one can back it up physically. Are they particularly smart or anything?

Sadly, I think most of the responsible dog owners getting pits are lookign to make a statement, either of their laughable street cred, or that they do not have a yuppie retriever or am hip toy dog.

For what it's worth, my dog is a mutt, which does reflect my own disdain of purebred anything.

If people are adopting pits and pit mixes from the pound to save them from being put down, that's a good thing. But I personally would be scared to have a pit or pit mix in my home and not know anything about its background. Its a fact that some pits are spefifically bred for aggressive traits. How do you know that's not what you're getting? How do you know that one day, something might happen that triggers it?

More or less my point, and while this is true for all dogs, particularly all rescued dogs (fair disclosure: mine nips from time to time) I'm not sure while otherwise intelligent people would get a dog that is statistically more likely to go off.
I completely agree.

Precious Williams wrote: If a highly disproportionate number of 330is had been involved in fatal accidents, I would express concern about that car - yes. I wouldn't claim to be an expert on the cars, but I would say that they scare me and that they seem to be unsafe. Which is just what I have been saying here, basically.

A more apt comparison - What about sport motorcycles and fatalities? Is it the fault of the bike or of the type of person attracted to 150+ mph hijinks on 2 wheels?

steve wrote: Hang on WhyFI. I have limited personal experience with pits, a few friends have had them, 1 or 2 I've known well and other dogs I've met in the park and so on. I've also heard the same reports you guys have on the news. I believe this qualifies me to form and disseminate an opinion, don't you? It seems like Precious is entitled to the same.

Depends on how well you knew the dogs, how well they were cared for and the media that you relied upon - any sane person will admit that sensationalist media is the norm, how 'fair and balanced' do you think these reports are? typically they relate nothing more than the details of the attack, not anything in-depth on the conditions surrounding the dog. A while back I linked an article from the NewYorker on racial profiling and pitbulls - did anyone read it?

steve wrote: No, it doesn't depend on how well I know the dogs. Furthermore, we are both entitled to disseminate an opinion regardless of anything we feel like regardless of personal experience, which is often tainted by emotion anyway.

Sure, feel free to voice your opinion, but preface it with a disclaimer that you're not really knowledgeable on the subject. I'm not going offer a friend an opinion on why it hurts when she pees just because my cousin Sally once had a bladder infection... if I do, I'm going to say, "well, in my limited experience..." If I offered a diagnosis on a computer problem, and you knew it to be inaccurate, what would you do?

pits are a problem breed. I used to have one, and he was always over excited. every day when i would come home from work, he would be barking and scratching at the front door.. It got so bad that i had him put down. i swore to myself that i would never get another pet.

MeanDººD wrote: pits are a problem breed. I used to have one, and he was always over excited. every day when i would come home from work, he would be barking and scratching at the front door.. It got so bad that i had him put down. i swore to myself that i would never get another pet.

Very funny. You are kidding, right?

MeanDººD wrote: i know that it was a un pc thing to do, but I WAS AT my wits end!!!! it started affecting my every day life. You dont know what its like to have to wake up first thing in the morning and clean doggie poo and pee-pee off of the rugs and carpets. it just got to be too much, plus all the constant barking, i had to see a therapist because his barking was making me lose concentration at work. If you have never had a pit , then you dont kn ow what it's like!

I still don't think you're being serious. Wasn't the pit scratching at the door when you came home because it was excited to see you? Was it a puppy? Why didn't it do its poo outside?

MeanDººD wrote: i know that it was a un pc thing to do, but I WAS AT my wits end!!!! it started affecting my every day life. You dont know what its like to have to wake up first thing in the morning and clean doggie poo and pee-pee off of the rugs and carpets. it just got to be too much, plus all the constant barking, i had to see a therapist because his barking was making me lose concentration at work. If you have never had a pit , then you dont kn ow what it's like!

Kidding or not, this is idiotic.

WhyFi wrote: [quote=steve]No, it doesn't depend on how well I know the dogs. Furthermore, we are both entitled to disseminate an opinion regardless of anything we feel like regardless of personal experience, which is often tainted by emotion anyway.

Sure, feel free to voice your opinion, but preface it with a disclaimer that you're not really knowledgeable on the subject. I'm not going offer a friend an opinion on why it hurts when she pees just because my cousin Sally once had a bladder infection... if I do, I'm going to say, "well, in my limited experience..." If I offered a diagnosis on a computer problem, and you knew it to be inaccurate, what would you do?

That would be an entirely different situation. In this instance these are opinions being discussed between a non-expert and at best an emotionally biased partisan.

WhyFi wrote: [quote=steve]That would be an entirely different situation. In this instance these are opinions being discussed between a non-expert and at best an emotionally biased partisan.

Is that so? And who is who, pray tell? Isn't the discussion, at it's core, about fear? Call me crazy, but don't you think that fear is just about the strongest emotion that we have going? A lot of shit goes out the window when fears rears it's head. If anyone here is emotionally biased, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's the fearful ones, not the ones arguing with logic, insight on basic dog and pack mentality and several dogs worth of experience.

I'd say you are just as biased and I'm sorry, not an expert, despite the experience. My whole argument here is that she is entitled to her opinion though. I've already made my point on the actual subject, so I'm not really discussing that, right?

steve wrote: I'd say you are just as biased and I'm sorry, not an expert, despite the experience. My whole argument here is that she is entitled to her opinion though. I've already made my point on the actual subject, so I'm not really discussing that, right?

A couple of posts ago, you insinuated that only I was biased, now you're saying that we're just as biased, eh? Let's look at that - hmmm - one person is arguing that these dogs are more mentally/emotionally unstable than the norm, one person is arguing that they're as mentally/emotionally stable as the norm. Where does the bias thing come in to play, again? Wouldn't I have to be arguing that they're more mentally/emotionally stable than the norm, if, as you insinuate, I'm equally biased?

As far as the right to an opinion, I think that I've addressed it several times. Entitled to one, yes. Does it mean that it's a qualified opinion? No. Am I implying that I'm an expert? No, simply that I'm more qualified than a person that has this to to say -

Precious Williams wrote: I was proud of myself at the weekend though. I patted a Pit Bull on the head and let it come really close to me. I also let a German Shepherd sniff my leg.

If we were discussing restaurants, and I said, "BigChoice Seafood sucks! Their crabcakes are horseshit and their service stinks!" Okay... but if I'd never actually been there, is it fair of me to make a statement detrimental to the reputation of the restaurant?

I've been driving wedges in all of the arguments coming my way for the entire thread and now it seems as if several parties have settled in to a happy loop of questioning credentials and motive, simply because it's the only wiggle-room left. Look, fear doesn't always make sense, maybe it's time to just admit that the fear of these dogs, as a breed, is baseless, so we can all move on and make steps to get over it.

brooklynpotter wrote: we are humans, they are not. i think we forget this, because our pets are part of our families. in many ways they're like our children.

A good point in several ways. We all can imagine how unstable a dog can be when abused, but not many people consider the ramifications to the other extreme - coddling and treating them as a humans, not as the animals that they are. Dogs need to be dogs, not children. Small dogs in particular are often treated like children, and it's a big reason that a large number of them are confused, fearful, aggressive animals... oh, wait - never mind, I'm not an expert...

WhyFi wrote:



Small dogs in particular are often treated like children, and it's a big reason that a large number of them are confused, fearful, aggressive animals... oh, wait - never mind, I'm not an expert...

Didn't Paris Hilton's little dog kill two people and critically injure a third?

this thread is making me long for the karma rating system!

I think little dogs, like the big ones, are great when they are not barking, yapping and snapping. No one breed has a lock on Problem Dog status - that New Yorker/Malcolm Gladwell article on dog profiling is terrific btw.

Larger dog owners (like myself...I have a midsize model) have reason to be wary of those little crazy dogs that lunge at our beasts. My dog looks at the little loons like they are curiosities and makes a wide berth, but I have been in the bad situation where crazy little dog slips its collar and I have to worry about it nipping my dog, and my dog swallowing it whole. Then I'd get blamed.

Whyfi is putting out alot of correct information about dog training, and gave a smart read on the dominance/snapping thing way up at the top of the thread. Well done, sir!
Thanks for keeping on the high road and taking one for the team with doggie education.

stacey wrote: [quote=Precious Williams][quote=WhyFi]



Small dogs in particular are often treated like children, and it's a big reason that a large number of them are confused, fearful, aggressive animals... oh, wait - never mind, I'm not an expert...

Didn't Paris Hilton's little dog kill two people and critically injure a third?

No it was her crabs :twisted: :twisted: (Sorry couldn't pass that up).
Hehe