just what we need, another bank (chase)

No we don't need anopther bank! And yes.. I am beginning to acknowledge that the reason that banks are huge is only because they can afford paying for the real estate and not that they need that many square footage to do business.. I don't know PS needs anymore in the way of commercial establishments but I am damn sure we don't need another Bank!!

But where is a goddamn Citibank past 9th when you need one?

Clearly, given the last two posts, we do indeed need another bank, contrary to the earlier posts. Just because you don't personally have need for a given business doesn't mean that there isn't a community need. I, for example, don't need a vegan restaurant, a baby store, a nail salon, or many of the other businesses around town, but that's okay b/c other people do.

And, as anyone who was on this board a few months ago hopefully remembers, banks will certainly not outbid other businesses for expensive real estate unless they expect the existence of those ATMs or that branch to generate greater revenue in the long run. In other words, they won't spend that money unless they believe there is in fact a large demand in the community for it--so many new branch openings is therefore not a sign of deep bank pockets, but rather a demonstrated need/desire in neighborhoods throughout the city for convenient access to cash.

doctorj wrote: Escap: are you quite sure that the outfit that believes it can make most money in a given space is the outfit that the community as a whole needs the most?

I don't see that the behavior of those consumers who spend most necessarily reflects the needs of the whole community. We don't live in a 100% user-pays economy which would be one kind of market-determined fairness; there are market distortions, like schools, fire stations, hospitals, and post offices to consider. Nor do we live in a society with the other extreme of fairness, where everyone spends the same amount and thus would have an equal say through their purchasing power in what is needed. Nor do I see that what people happen to want to buy today necessarily matches what a community needs to invest in for its long term growth and health.

Well, by definition the business that makes the most money = the business at which people in the area (be it temporarily or permanently) spend the most money. And the business that makes the most money, or at least expects to, will be the one which can pay the highest rent. Now, I think it's largely okay to generalize further and say that people spend the most money at places that they need/want/value the most, i.e., those places which are the most valuable to the community.

However, you can always come up with exceptions. One billionaire could buy one ridiculously expensive diamond necklace that in that single purchase generates more revenue than 5 year's revenue at Joyce's bakeshop, creating an obvious distortion as to who exactly is the "community". Likewise, a handful of very wealthy could dominate the market such that poor people in the area can't get what they want because their vendors are all priced out, but I find that HIGHLY unlikely anywhere in NYC, where there are so many thousands of businesses.

As far as real estate being used by the government, it's very difficult, precisely because of the distortions you mentioned, to reliably measure the value those places add to the community. The city may be willing, for political reasons, to throw money at something which does not create a return, or the return may be so diffuse that it exists but is impossible to measure. Your point is well taken but I don't think it contradicts my simple point that bank branches fulfill a real need and otherwise wouldn't be opening in such droves.

As for your last point about the difference between consumption and investment, I wholly agree. But I think it's beside the point. Businesses offer goods/services for people to consume. If consumers spend their money there, it's ostensibly--for better or worse--because they want to, at least in that moment. Sure, a drug den, casino, liquor store or other such "sin" business, or even something like a McDonald's, that sells tremendously unhealthy food to people, is selling a product that may ultimately will debilitate the community despite the fact that it could be profitable and satisfy a "need" in the short run. So again, your general point is taken, but again, I don't think a bank branch is comparable at all. In fact, on the subject of investment what could be more beneficial than a bank?!!! Ready cash, savings vehicles, retirement planning, home loans, small business loans, etc. Yeah, I think you'd have to try hard in fact to come up with a business that better provides both a short term consumer need and a long term opportunity for community investment.

Sweet! I'm so pleasantly surprised at the reasonable responses to my argument. Thanks for being so open minded! For my part, I can definitely see how it's hard to get psyched about something as drab as a bank branch opening, if you were hoping for a restaurant, bookstore, cafe, boutique, or just about anything else of the more fun variety. Point well taken.

(What a rare and bizarre cordial exchange....)

WhyFi wrote: WHAT ARE YOU EFFIN' KIDDIN' ME? HOW CAN ANOTHER BANK BE A GOOD THING? GOD DAMN YUPPIES. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE CHECK CASHING PLACE - THEY WERE ALWAYS GOOD ENOUGH BEFORE YOU ALL GOT HERE WITH YOUR DOUBLE-WIDE STROLLERS AND DOUBLE-TALL LATTES.

Ah, that's more like it. =D>

WhyFi wrote: WHAT ARE YOU EFFIN' KIDDIN' ME? HOW CAN ANOTHER BANK BE A GOOD THING? GOD DAMN YUPPIES. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE CHECK CASHING PLACE - THEY WERE ALWAYS GOOD ENOUGH BEFORE YOU ALL GOT HERE WITH YOUR DOUBLE-WIDE STROLLERS AND DOUBLE-TALL LATTES.

haha omg good one whyfi .