Sterling Place

stacy:

the fact that db immediately mentioned his own race as being a "white dude" seemed to imply that the likkle yutes in question were of a different ethnicity. there was a subtext of "i'm a white dude, is it safe for me to live in a neighborhood where minority kids are smoking weed on the street?". if i'm wrong and it was white kids that he was referring to, i apologize profusely.

it's nice to see the enthusiasm that so many new residents have for the neighborhood, but much of it seems rooted in "what new restaurants are opening?" and not "exquisite makes some damn dynamite mac 'n cheese". these are blanket statements on my part, but i don't think they're completely off. i completely understand and empathize with your call for vigilance towards worries of history repeating itself (although the statistics on crime trends seem to show progress is continuing unabated), but so much of this board's sentiment seems based in "okay, i've been here two months; let's get rid of the black kids hanging out on the corner and get a thai-honduran fusion restaurant open over here." the sense of immediate ownership coupled with a lack of perspective on the neighborhood's history adds up to some ugly, divisive and hysterical posts. again, i'm using a wide brush here.

Young Snitch, I agree with what you are saying. Sometimes I sit here thinking the same thing when I read some of the posts on the board. I'm glad that the discussion was brought up and I'm glad to see that folks are acutally talking about it and coming to an understanding.

young snitch wrote: stacy:

the fact that db immediately mentioned his own race as being a "white dude" seemed to imply that the likkle yutes in question were of a different ethnicity. there was a subtext of "i'm a white dude, is it safe for me to live in a neighborhood where minority kids are smoking weed on the street?". if i'm wrong and it was white kids that he was referring to, i apologize profusely.

it's nice to see the enthusiasm that so many new residents have for the neighborhood, but much of it seems rooted in "what new restaurants are opening?" and not "exquisite makes some damn dynamite mac 'n cheese". these are blanket statements on my part, but i don't think they're completely off. i completely understand and empathize with your call for vigilance towards worries of history repeating itself (although the statistics on crime trends seem to show progress is continuing unabated), but so much of this board's sentiment seems based in "okay, i've been here two months; let's get rid of the black kids hanging out on the corner and get a thai-honduran fusion restaurant open over here." the sense of immediate ownership coupled with a lack of perspective on the neighborhood's history adds up to some ugly, divisive and hysterical posts. again, i'm using a wide brush here.

It takes more effort to make a well-reasoned and articulate post like this one than to just lash out by labling people racist, but it's so much more productive.

shimshom wrote: [quote=Carnivore]It takes more effort to make a well-reasoned and articulate post like this one than to just lash out by labling people racist, but it's so much more productive.

How is it more productive, Carnivore? YS's first post generated a lot of response and, presumably, some thought. Few seem at all concerned about the points s/he made in the "well-reasoned and articulate" post that you quoted.

Nobody labeled anyone racist, as far as I can tell. YS simply made the point that DB might be racist, and then elaborated when some people didn't understand why that might be. S/he didn't have to explain to me, or to some other readers, why there might well be some latent racism underlying DB's perspective. There is a great deal of stuff said on this board that could be the product of racism. It does indeed make sense for people to do a bit of self-examination.
Actually, it was the subsequent explanation of the post that generated the interesting discussion, not the initial bit of trollery. I quoted one of YS's better posts, but any of them after the initial one could have served. I'm all for self-examination, but although making an inflamatory accusation is easier than actually explaining your views, it's not as effective in communicating the underlying point (which presumably is what YS was trying to accomplish by posting here).

sje wrote: THe recent "deluge" of new residents is NOT the reason the neighborhood development is "stunted", IT'S EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE. It's old timers who can't stand change of any type, even if it's getting rid of the "friendly" drug dealers they're so used to seeing. The "new" people are speaking up to change things for the better, whether you like it or not. :roll:

SJE,

Thanks for inviting me to register. I just did, but I am not at all clear on how that strengthens my credibility. I am still the same anonymous voice to you that I was five minutes ago.

(Just so you know, although I have never posted until today, I have been reading this board for months and have read every post. Reading this stuff, I have become more and more disturbed by the cluelessness and insensitivity displayed by some of the self-described new residents of Crown Heights.)

If the above statement of yours accurately depicts how you view "new" and "old" residents of Crown Heights, I do not think that spending a Happy Hour together would make either of us terribly happy. The change that the "old timers . . . can't stand" is being displaced by privileged folks with no sense of the neighborhood dynamics who come here for the reasons outlined on this board:

1. "Cheap rent." Cheap to some is outrageously high to others.
2. "Cheap housing prices." See above. The more people from Park Slope and points west buy up the housing stock at inflated prices, the harder it is for the "old timers" to afford to live here. Where, pray tell, would you like the people you displace to go?
3. "Funky, multicultural, etc. neighborhood." Where? This is a predominantly Afro-Caribbean and African-American neighborhood. If you want to live here, live here, not in some way-station on the path to a fantasy of a future Crown Heights that looks just like Park Slope.

You want people who have lived in this area for years not to take exception to "new residents." People don't have an issue with new residents per se; obviously, new people are moving into every neighborhood all the time. Long-time residents have an issue with those new residents who 1) talk like they know what's good for a neighborhood thev've just arrived in, and 2) don't seem to care what what the existing residents think/feel/worry about (see your "whether you like it or not" tag line).[/i]

lol @ oldbie.

Subject: exquisite

Exquisite is the name of a take-out place on Nostrand Avenue at the corner of Prospect Place. They have mac n cheese. Is this the place that was mentioned?

Not being a huge aficionado of mac n cheese myself, i can't say how delicious theirs is. I ate it. I liked it. It seemed about right to me. But you know how some people are about their mac n cheese: they want to know what kinds of cheese went in it and they got to have their corner piece with the most brownest crust, or whatever. right?

i can tell you that the steam table at Exquisite usually has several kinds of chicken and fish, including southern fried chicken, curried chicken, jerk chicken, and brown stewed chicken; and escobetch (sp?) king fish, batter fried whiting fish; oxtail stew; as well as potatoes, rice and peas, candied yams, fried ripe plantains, cabbage, peas and carrots; lots of good food. I guess i'd say it's a syncretic caribbean with some southern soul food place. It's very hygienic, sparkle clean, the prices are going to run you 6, 8 dollars for a big aluminum take out container stuffed to the top with food.

Happy eating!

Subject: discussions of racism

Ysnitch's posts have often irritated me too--partly because I felt like they represented a sort of neo-hipster attitude that scoffed at anything that didn't seem "tough," as if worrying about crime was the providence of "yuppies."
But here I have to say--YS is onto something. The way people write about race on this board frankly stinks--people get away with writing precisely that sort of stuff--not mentioning that the "guys on the corner" are black, and then saying, btw, "I'm a white dude." That's the sort of casual soft racism of daily life that nonetheless says a lot. I'm amused and saddened by the fact that for all too many people talking about racism is the "crime," not "being" racist--which, as YS points out, is all over this board. That said, I do think that neighborhoods prosper when they aren't all one race--I left the Slope because it has come to feel "white" in an exclusionary way, and I do like the balance and feel of Fort Greene. Crown Heights needs more interracial exchange and dialogue, less fear and generalizations, but also less crime. Possible? I think so.

Nice idea, except it doesn't work so easily for women. Too often being friendly or smiling seems to be interpreted by guys on the street as an invitation to be propositioned.

On the other hand, I'm friendly with everyone in my building. Great neighbors.

sweet tea wrote: [quote=cythren]Nice idea, except it doesn't work so easily for women. Too often being friendly or smiling seems to be interpreted by guys on the street as an invitation to be propositioned.

it works for little ol' me. i say hi to most everybody -- and i notice that i actually get a lot more cross-race responses than same race ones. i've made some good neighborhood friends that way.

sure, sometimes men do take it as an invitation to ask for my number or something, but no more often than happens when i don't say hello. in fact, i tihnk saying hello to people actually cuts down on the aggressive propositioning, because it makes men see me as a person, not just something to me talked at or made kissy noises to.

(man, i hate the kissy noises. i'm not a dog.)

I agree - smiling and being nice works well for me. it puts me in the category of memorable neighborhood resident and not rude neighborhood resident, which I think is good.

I think the third Tuesday of October.

Eve Porter is in charge: 718-493-7219.

It is great to start to meet each other in person because yes, sometimes we make assumptions about one another's background, etc., and you know what they say about assumptions.

alwayslookaround wrote: Say hello to each other on the street! There is nothing to fear when smiling and/or saying hello to someone. Sure, you'll probably get a strange look once in a while. And you'll definitely be ignored occasionally. But you'll be pleasantly surprised most of the time.

I just had to post this link, and it's intended just for a laugh, so please don't anyone take it too seriously.

I didn’t notice that this post had gone on so long, but to clear up any confusion, No, I'm absolutely not a racist. It’s a sad truth that color is still a huge issue in this country, and I was warned by a NYC police officer that it can be an issue for a white person to move into certain predominantly black neighborhoods. It was not the main concern of my post, and I only attached the fact that I'm white onto the end in the off chance that it was an issue. I hope I didn’t offend anyone with my presumption.

I did end up moving to Sterling Place, and was entirely happy with my choice – nice neighbors, primarily friendly people on the street – until this past Sunday. Around 11pm I was returning home from the Franklin Ave subway stop. After I crossed St. John’s I was approached by a group of 5 or 6 young people. I said “Hello,” when they stopped in front of me but before I could continue walking, I was knocked to the ground and beaten, before they stole me bag with had a bunch of important possessions (including a laptop). I spent the night at the police station where I filled out the requisite reports, and officer after officer told me I should never have moved there, and should strongly consider leaving. Apparently this is a common occurrence, and one I should come to expect if I want to stay. It’s not something I’m willing to put up with. I no longer feel safe on the street after dark, which is no way to live.