Please PS bicylists, I swear I don't want to kill you..

So it's our fault that you're a crummy driver? I love how people are quick to point out bad behavior in cyclists, but turn a blind eye to pedestrians and bad drivers--who are just as, if not more, guilty. Sure, there's some cyclists out there who do stupid shit but most of us are just worried about getting from point A to point B without being killed. You have no idea how much bullshit we get from drivers--I can't do any harm to you, but you wield a lot more power to harm me (and pedestrians).

Here's a wild suggestion: if you're sick and can't drive get off the road. You're a mom, how would you feel about someone driving badly around your kids?

Cyclists are aggressive because everyone out there is aggressive--people watch each other and figure if they can do it, why can't I? The first person who has never crossed against a light and slowed down traffic) or sped up to get thru a red light can cast the first stone. We're all guilty of traffic rudeness in some form. I don't condone it but I think it's bullshit to throw all the guilt on cyclists and act like cars and peds aren't part of the problem. Hating on cyclists is so gothamist.com--and they just keep posting the same arguements over and over again. Shit is tired.

I do have two things I find completely unacceptable: riding on the sidewalk if you're an adult and riding against traffic (because then I get pushed into traffic in order to make room for you--fuck that). At the risk of sounding racist, it seems like the biggest offenders are usually immigrant deliverymen- they are notorious for breaking cycling laws and I'm surprized there aren't more accidents (maybe they're not reported?). But what can I do--I don't ride like that but I still get grouped together with people who do and threaten other people's and their own safety. The only thing you can do is be conscientious about your own behavior--if people want to act like they have little regard for thier health and well-being then why should you? The guy riding down the middle of the road is an idiot--there are plenty of idiots on foot and behind the wheels of cars, too.

kensingtonmom, you're contradicting yourself--first off you're a bad driver and then suddenly you're a good one? Yes, cyclists can take a lane if they are no more than two abreast, but in general you should stay to the right. If it is a narrow street (like 6th Av down by Flatbush) and the car can't pass then the lane is yours. Sometimes riding to the left is safer when you think a car is going to cut you off, and if there is visibility issues or people are passing too closely then taking the lane can be safer as well (http://bicyclesafe.com/). Cyclists are supposed to stop at red lights, but it is generally accepted that if there is no cross traffic they are free to go (much like pedestrians do)--I've asked cops about this and gotten mixed answers. Legally, you must stop--I do, but I know a lot of people don't, and for running I know people do for some of the reaons on listed on the above link (getting cut off by someone turning, etc...).--if there's no cars cutting across the intersection and one sitting at the light next to you, waiting, it's in your best interest to get a head start so you're not in their blind spot and don't get cut off if they decide to turn. As for bike lanes, they're a joke--have you seen the one on 5th Av? More like double parking lane. 7th Av. is wider, safer, and better about ticketing traffic violators--I'd rather ride there than a bike lane.

kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=erikka]kensingtonmom, you're contradicting yourself--first off you're a bad driver and then suddenly you're a good one? Yes, cyclists can take a lane if they are no more than two abreast, but in general you should stay to the right. If it is a narrow street (like 6th Av down by Flatbush) and the car can't pass then the lane is yours..

Your right. I would say I am not a great driver--but as soon as you told me to stay off the road (when I needed to take my sick kids to the pediatrician) I got a little pissed and defensive. But compared to most NY drivers, I am very cautious and polite. But in the scheme of good drivers, I don't think I am great since I have had a license for only two years.

Well, I will give you credit for learning how to drive in NYC--I can't imagine how scary that must be. I had the luxury of farm roads and huge parking lots and overly polite drivers who would sit at stop signs staring at each other until someone went. Sorry--i was snappy. I'm sensitive about this because I stopped riding in the city recently due to all the car/bike deaths that took place over the summer.

I'm a good driver (I've been driving for 10 years all over the country and europe, including living in the southern city with the most accidents in the entire southeast,) and I can confidently say that the cyclists here are horrible.
If I were riding a bike with a bunch of cars that could easily KILL or SEVERLY INJURE ME, I would have a lot more respect for drivers. Cars have blind spots. People get distracted. Its unfair to think that all motorists must be perfect all the time, and its unfair to think all cyclists have to be perfect all the time, but seeing people on bikes blatently avoid traffic laws (like running red lights) makes me very unsympathetic to all of their (frequent) bitching about how they get "no respect on the road."

erikka wrote: So it's our fault that you're a crummy driver?

It sounds like kensingtonmom is trying to say she is an inexperienced driver, not a crummy driver. And to that point, through no fault of their own, there are inexperienced drivers on the road all the time. I don't know why people take for granted that if they are themselves careful, they'll be safe. It just isn't true.

erikka wrote: The word "crummy" was a direct quote from the initial post.

Yes, I'm aware of that. My point is that she's probably being a little hard on herself. Inexperience is obviously the issue here, if you read carefully.

This isn't a discussion about whether you are safer in a car or on a bike, so I'm don't see what point you are trying to make there. The point of this thread, I think, is that you can't lay the blame solely on bikers or solely on drivers. Both sides make mistakes. Both sides need to be careful.

The assertion that drivers have a greater responsibility to be safe than bicyclists is just patently absurd. You're basically giving bicyclists the right to ride irresponsibly and putting the entire burden of safety on drivers!

linusvanpelt wrote: I'll admit, when I bike in the street, I'll run red lights, after stopping or slowing way down and looking both ways. I can't rationalize it legally, but I actually feel safer doing it. Number one, I feel like one of the greatest dangers to me on a bike is the car, coming up alongside me, that makes an overaggressive right turn WITH the light, through my path and right into me. (I recall reading a story a few years ago that the greatest cause of pedestrian accidents in NYC was cars making overaggressive LEGAL turns through walkways and running over peds.) And when I bike through the red light, it's more likely I won't have any cars in the road next to me, at least for a little while, because they'll be stopped at the light behind me.

EXACTLY--the further I am away from your car at an intersection, the better for both of us. Like the link post above shows, I have gotten clipped by people making last-minute right hand turns.

And as for the crummy driver part, I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to themselves as such so I was taken aback. It's always everyone else on the road--they're all crazy. Every single one of them!

kensingtonmom wrote: [quote=VeggieQueen]oh no... is this a repeat of the "prospect park is not the tour de France " post:

http://www.brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3701

i think kensingtonmom started that one, too.

Nope. I think we reached common ground on this one.

I did start the tour de france one--is it a problem?

Dude, you will get my 100% agreement on that one--spandex warriors are awful. They do the same thing in Central Park, too. Between the packs of cyclists and packs of teenagers I'm too scared to run, walk OR bike in that park--it's like rules, laws and common sense do not exist in those few square miles.