A little worried + Bagels + Franklin avenue subway

breatheeasy · September 2006

Ok, so,
I'm moving to the area soon (Bergen & Classon), and wasn't worried until reading all the posts on here about the shootings, and muggings, and drug dealing... and obviously I use common sense, and I don't usually get worried about these sorts of things, but I just read SO MUCH horrible stuff on here.... I don't know, I lived in Astoria last year, and it was never a problem walking home or walking up to the store at 2 3 4am... I know it's completely different in BK, but would you really say not to be on the street late at all, like coming home from the subway at 11 or 12? are there safer streets? In Astoria there was always someone around... not the case here? are streets pretty secluded at night, except for the 'baddies'?

leading me to my next question, how is the Franklin ave stop at night? I read something someone said avoid it... I think thats the stop nearest to me. Would it be smarter to get off at Eastern Parkway & walk the couple extra blocks?

Leading me (sort of) to my final question... on the way from classon & bergen to the Franklin ave stop, is there a place to get coffee & a bagel in the morning?? Thanks a bunch : )

regardless, i'm looking foward to moving to the neighborhood!

-jillian

whyfi · September 2006

More people might respond to this in the Crown Heights forum. Can we have a mod relocate this?

The station isn't pretty, but it doesnt strike me as any more dangerous than any other station... A lot of people transfer there for the Franklin Ave shuttle, so there are usually a fair number of people about. You could do the same - jump on the shuttle and take it two stops to Park/Prospect & Classon.

apollonia666 · September 2006

Bergen and Classon is the end of my block -- I'm further down towards Grand. I've been here since April and haven't had any problems so far -- that stretch of Classon is pretty well-lit at night, and there are usually people around. Although the that end of the block on Bergen west of the intersection feels kind of deserted because it's mostly warehouses on that end of the block I think it'll be a bit better since the new building on the corner has started filling with residents. I've had people tell me not to use the Franklin Avenue shuttle to Prospect Place late at night, but I've used it as late as 1 in the morning and there were lots of people around. There are lots of families with kids on Classon around that corner. And there's a bus stop right at the corner, which is pretty convenient.

Don't know about the bagels, though -- I always wait till I'm near my office to pick up breakfast.

bklynbonnie · September 2006

Subject: Frankling Ave stop

I have never felt unsafe or had any problems at the Franklin Ave stop. In fact, I have been told that the Eastern Pkway stop can be dangerous because there's less traffic in and out there. I come home @ 11pm often (I live on Sterling b Beford and Franklin) and have never had an issue and don't feel scared but I do think you should be cautious after the bodegas all close and the further you get from Eastern Pkway. Hope that helps. I don't think you should be overly alarmed by what you are reading on this board, it's not something that makes me feel particularly safe but I also don't feel instinctually scared on the streets suddenly. I just make an attempt to be more aware.

anonymous · September 2006

For bagels and coffee, The Lincoln Deli on the corner of Lincoln and Classon is on your way to the subway. It's my favorite in the neighborhood--really clean atmosphere, nice owners.

I've come home through both the Eastern Pkwy and Franklin Ave stops late at night without a problem. You can't live your life thinking that not staying out past a time will save you from harm. The Franklin Ave and Eastern Pkwy stops are busy well into the night especially on weekends. Plenty of people get attacked in broad daylight, too. As you say, common sense will dictate what you do and don't do. Coming home at any time from Franklin Ave subway, I would feel more comfortable walking down Classon rather than cutting across a sidestreet from Franklin, if I were you. Not because there are "baddies" there, but just because sidestreets can be dark and lonely.

It's horrible that people in the neighborhood are being victimized, and there is certainly drug dealing (on my block, even), but don't worry too much--once you move in, you'll get a sense of the everday life around here. I've lived here since 2002, and my friend has lived around the corner off classon on st. john's since about 2000. It's wonderful to be close to the museum, botanical gardens, park, and library, and most of your neighbors will be sweet, responsible, normal people.

Welcome to CH!

breatheeasy · September 2006

Thank you ZoÃƒÂ« for the Deli reccomendation! That's perfect.
And thanks everyone else for the responses - pretty much what I expected, but like I said, I let myself get worked up reading these forums! Haha.

So, just to clarify.. I do live in Crown Heights?! : ) The borders seem to shift based on people's opinons... some say Prospect Heights ends at Washington, others say Bedford. But those who say it ends at Washington, says CH starts at Bedford... so the inbetween, where I live, is like the neighborhood that doesn't exist...?

and to apollonia666, yeah, that stretch of Bergen is very deserted, I almost moved into that new building on the edge of the block, but I am actually on Classon now. I also live right near a deli that's open pretty late so, that's comforting too : )

thanks again for the responses

apollonia666 · September 2006

breatheeasy wrote: So, just to clarify.. I do live in Crown Heights?! : ) The borders seem to shift based on people's opinons... some say Prospect Heights ends at Washington, others say Bedford. But those who say it ends at Washington, says CH starts at Bedford... so the inbetween, where I live, is like the neighborhood that doesn't exist...?

The great debate! I *think* the majority seems to agree on Washington Avenue as the western border, but this may very well start yet another discussion on it.

I always tell people I live in Crown Height but that a broker will tell you it's Prospect Heights.

ebrendan · September 2006

Wikipedia says Bedford, and it seems most real estate agents would agree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Heights

But everything else I've ever read has claimed Washington to be the line-- It's clearly the most commonly accepted boundary and I've always thought it was Washington... But I'm not a real estate agent. If I were, I'd probably tell you that you live in Brooklyn Heights and are a 10 minute subway ride from midtown.

whyfi · September 2006

Most people in the area accept Washington as the eastern border of CH, although realtors stretch it (and it's believed that they may be responsible for regularly changing the wiki entry :roll: ). I would rather believe someone without a financial interest in what the neighborhood in named. In addition, the character of the streets changes pretty noticeably at Washington, so it just makes sense to me...

carnivore · September 2006

ebrendan wrote: Wikipedia says Bedford, and it seems most real estate agents would agree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Heights

Not anymore, it doesn't. Actually, I have to change this back to Washington every few weeks.

anonymous · September 2006

And I have to change it to Bedford every few weeks. Very annoying.

carnivore · September 2006

Anonymous wrote: And I have to change it to Bedford every few weeks. Very annoying.

LOL

Good luck selling those houses!

sweet tea · September 2006

WhyFi wrote: the character of the streets changes pretty noticeably at Washington

i'm not disputing the border, but i don't really agree with that observation. i think it depends on which cross street you're talking about. for instance, i think that prospect changes noticeably at underhill and again at grand, then at franklin and again at bedford. that criteria would make for some mighty skinny neighborhoods.

park, on the other hand, fits your model nicely.

young snitch · September 2006

the alteration of neighborhood borders is drenched in both classism and racism. if you're going to fabricate boundaries in order to juice prospective renters, at least acknowledge that you're a scumbag.

carnivore · September 2006

young snitch wrote: the alteration of neighborhood borders is drenched in both classism and racism. if you're going to fabricate boundaries in order to juice prospective renters, at least acknowledge that you're a scumbag.

You're growing on me, young snitch!

whyfi · September 2006

sweet tea wrote: i'm not disputing the border, but i don't really agree with that observation. i think it depends on which cross street you're talking about. for instance, i think that prospect changes noticeably at underhill and again at grand, then at franklin and again at bedford. that criteria would make for some mighty skinny neighborhoods.

This is all an elaborate way of saying, "Hey! OUR blocks are nice!!!"

sweet tea · September 2006

WhyFi wrote: [quote=sweet tea]i'm not disputing the border, but i don't really agree with that observation. i think it depends on which cross street you're talking about. for instance, i think that prospect changes noticeably at underhill and again at grand, then at franklin and again at bedford. that criteria would make for some mighty skinny neighborhoods.

This is all an elaborate way of saying, "Hey! OUR blocks are nice!!!"

true. AND to say "Hey! Some blocks in PH ain't so hot, neither!!"

but then what did you mean?

by the way, props to you for refusing to let the border fanatics bend their own rules to usurp the islands.

whyfi · September 2006

sweet tea wrote: true. AND to say "Hey! Some blocks in PH ain't so hot, neither!!"

but then what did you mean?

Well, in general, there's a change in character... Even though I like my block, it's not lined with the brownstones that (to me) define PH. Then again, there are a lot of large multi-family apts near GAP, too... :-k

sweet tea wrote: by the way, props to you for refusing to let the border fanatics bend their own rules to usurp the islands.

Thank you! Mad props to you for using the word 'usurp.'

neene · September 2006

my block is beautiful
it has trees and a mix of townhouses and small apartment buildings

go further out into crown heights or bed stuy for that matter and you'll see blocks that rival any in brooklyn

dean has an industrial strip basically until you get to franklin then it changes...

beauty is in the eye of the beholder
for me, block after block of the same row houses becomes very boring visually , i don't particularily love park slope for that reason or the upper west side in manhattan, give me a little variety and a little dirt, debris & decay any day.

i guess we are way off topic here, yes, the closer you are to manhattan, the more likely it is to be gentrified,
where that elusive line gets drawn is different for everyone

capt. planet · September 2006

Carnivore wrote: [quote=young snitch]the alteration of neighborhood borders is drenched in both classism and racism. if you're going to fabricate boundaries in order to juice prospective renters, at least acknowledge that you're a scumbag.

You're growing on me, young snitch!

A noted architectural historian pointed out to me recently that many middle class n'hoods are surrounded by lower income areas where those that serviced the middle class lived. Thus the nicest homes in Crown Heights are between Nostrand and Albany and these are the areas that are being landmarked. The blocks between Washington and Nostrand are often characterized by warehouses, garages, tenements (8-16 unit walk-ups) and smaller, less expensive homes.

Whether this "nether" n'hood between Washingon and Nostrand is labelled "Prospect Heights" or "Crown Heights" does little to illuminate the fact that it just plain is not as nice as the communities on either side of it, at least in terms of housing stock.

cowgirly · September 2006

Hey breatheeasy,
I take the train to Franklin Ave all the time, up until around 1am sometimes, and I've never had a problem or felt unsafe. Sometimes I choose to take the bus from Atlantic/Pacific down St. Johns instead of the subway, or I'll grab a cab there to get me to my door if it's late.

Welcome!

squeegee beckenheim · September 2006

Hey breatheasy!
Welcome to the block! I'm right on the corner of Classon and St. Marks- two secs away.

I'm a young, single, kinda tiny girl and I find no trouble walking to that train station in the morning and evening. There are always people sitting on the stoop of the converted Jewish Hospital, and usually people around by the school on my block.

You'll also notice a man standing on the corner doing jumping jacks, etc. He's harmless, so don't worry about him!
There's another 24 hr grocery on Park and Classon (I believe) but I haven't found any place to get coffee in the morning yet. Let me know when you find something.

leeho · September 2006

Subject: Go AWAY

Jillian,

Damn is is so hard to type those letters because I have a friend who is also a Jillian. But, just by your topic of "worries" "bagels," etc. Just go home. This ins't Williamsbugh circa 93'. It saddens me and outrages me that there are so many welcome arms to a post such as this. This isn't the greatest neighborhood in the world and never has it been expected to be so....but such mundane bullshit is intolerable. I really hope it is too hard for you. I really hope your landlord drives your rent through the roof. I HOPE that you move ASAP because you don't have a clue about what this place is like. You are concerened with all this shit that you can get in soooooo many other places to live in this city and it is evident that you are not here by choice. You are here by rent and a good deal. Well, you WILL not find a good bagel or scallion goddamned cream cheese near Frankin Ave........ So, maybe, though it seems as if you already signed your lease, you should really reconsider. Queens really is a beautiful place, don't ya think?

leeho · September 2006

BTW, I wanna meet young snitch. I agree with him/her again and agian. Wanna meet, ya little devil? (That is entirely sarcastic!)

bojolais · September 2006

Good grief! Why are ya'll attacking this person who wants a decent bagel and coffeee. We have a bagel shop on Nostrand b/w Union and President.I don't know why these psychos think it's bad to have more restaurants and amenities. LeeHo and Littlesnitch are so aggressive it sickens me.

apollonia666 · September 2006

Agreed -- perhaps the original poster came off as a bit naive, but that's no reason to be a jerk.

anonymous · September 2006

What I find interesting is that in a previous post LeeHo said the following...

I have been doing a lot of reading on this site for the past few weeks and I haven't posted much, becasue of so much negativity and one upmanship that keeps poking around throughout these pages. The bottom line, and I feel as if it should be mentioned, is that it seems as if people all give a shit about their respected neighborhoods, which is great, but the ragtag defensiveness is a bit much, yeah? Perhaps this posting is in the wrong place, but it seems as if people can't even get along on some anonymous neighborhood website, how are they gonna believe and face each other in person and in a direct manner to solve whatever problems need to be solved? Ugh.

So which is it? Try to get along and except people regardless of their naivitae or call people out for being new to the neighborhood and asking about food they enjoy?

apollonia666 · September 2006

Anonymous wrote: What I find interesting is that in a previous post LeeHo said the following...

I have been doing a lot of reading on this site for the past few weeks and I haven't posted much, becasue of so much negativity and one upmanship that keeps poking around throughout these pages. The bottom line, and I feel as if it should be mentioned, is that it seems as if people all give a shit about their respected neighborhoods, which is great, but the ragtag defensiveness is a bit much, yeah? Perhaps this posting is in the wrong place, but it seems as if people can't even get along on some anonymous neighborhood website, how are they gonna believe and face each other in person and in a direct manner to solve whatever problems need to be solved? Ugh.
So which is it? Try to get along and except people regardless of their naivitae or call people out for being new to the neighborhood and asking about food they enjoy?

Good catch there!

I guess what LeeHo is saying is that OTHER people's negativity isn't okay, but apparently his or her own is perfectly dandy! :roll:

bojolais · September 2006

Exactly.

homeowner · September 2006

Okay, so here's the scoop without all of the crap. This portion of CH is primarily a black neighborhood with a large percentage of the residents coming from Caribbean backgrounds. Therefore, bagels are not indigenous to Franklin Avenue. You are much more likely to come across the following as breakfast options:

Saltfish and Ackee
Bun and Cheese

or the bodega basic

Egg and Cheese on a roll. (Sometimes called Bacon, Egg and Cheese on a roll depending on the buyerÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s tolerance for the evil swine)

If you are a vegan, vegetarian, on a low fat, low carb or any other low regimen, you might want to eat at home or wait until you get to your destination to eat. If you discover a spot that caters to your particular dietary needs keep it on the low.

Coffee is available at almost any bodega/corner store in the area. It comes in two sizes (small and large) and four ways (black, black and sweet, light, light and sweet). That is universal and it doesn't matter if the proprietor is Jamaican, Dominican, Arabic, or Asian you'll get your coffee the same from each. There are no lattes. DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t ask for them. You will forever be labeled as an outsider and loose all of the valuable street cred you have gotten from living here.

If you donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know how to drink your coffee without spilling it on the train, bring your own travel mug and make the transfer. Otherwise you get it in two cups. There are no fancy sleeves. Bodegas in the morning are filled with unhappy people up early to go to school or work, so know what you want when you walk in. DonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t dawdle and donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t stand there trying to make up your mind while others are waiting to pay for their coffee or paper or candy. Now is not the time to try and make friends. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s too damn early for that.

Thanks for your question and welcome to the neighborhood.

breatheeasy · September 2006

Squeegee Beckenheim wrote: Hey breatheasy!
Welcome to the block! I'm right on the corner of Classon and St. Marks- two secs away.

I'm a young, single, kinda tiny girl and I find no trouble walking to that train station in the morning and evening. There are always people sitting on the stoop of the converted Jewish Hospital, and usually people around by the school on my block.

You'll also notice a man standing on the corner doing jumping jacks, etc. He's harmless, so don't worry about him!
There's another 24 hr grocery on Park and Classon (I believe) but I haven't found any place to get coffee in the morning yet. Let me know when you find something.

Thanks! Yeah, I actually almost moved into a share in that Jewish Hospital building, so I know two guys in there : ) there are some nice apts in there...

Someone reccomended the Lincoln deli, but the deli next to me (classon & bergen) actually has a good cup of coffee for 50 cents, so it's all good, i'll just eat my cereal in the morning & grab a coffee : )

A little worried + Bagels + Franklin avenue subway

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