Sunset Park New Arrivals

sunsetpete · July 2007

I've lived in Sunset Park for 3+ years, and am just starting to notice what looks to me like a near-critical-mass of 20-somethings and 30-somethings arriving from elsewhere. It's beginning to feel a little bit like southside Williamsburg nearly a decade ago. What I'm wondering is the following:

--Are any of these new arrivals on these discussion boards?

--If so, how long have you lived in Sunset?

--Do you think you'll stay for 1 year? 2 years? 5? Longer?

--Do you actually spend time in the neighborhood with friends? If so, where do you hang out? If not, do you think you would spend more time in the neighborhood if there *were* a place where you felt comfortable hanging out?

(Just to clarify, since the overall board here blends the south slope and Sunset Park, I'm not talking about folks who live in "Greenwood Heights"---I'm talking about people who live between 36th Street and 60th Street between 3rd and 8th Aves)

raedog · July 2007

My husband and I are 30-something new arrivals--and both post to this board, though not incredibly often--and we have been here in Sunset Park (41st and 7th) three months now (moved from Park Slope). I've been in Brooklyn 11 years and my husband has been here 12--all spent in either Prospect Heights or Park Slope, where we moved from. We bought our apartment in Sunset Park, so I hope we'll be here at least five years! We'll see...the litter/trash problem you mentioned in your other post bothers me quite a bit (the park after a weekend is particularly foul), and it'd be nice to be able to buy certain things I have to go to other neighborhoods for....So far, we have spent time in the park with friends--that amazing view is well worth the trip from other neighborhoods--and at various restaurants: the great dumpling place on 48th off 8th (dingy but delicious), Ba Xuyen, etc. We're always curious to hear about restaurants people have been, so tell us if you've had anything particularly good. Most of the newcomers to our building--and in the past two/three years at least four apartments have sold--are people 40 and under moving from less affordable Brooklyn neighborhoods (Boerum Hill, Park Slope, Windsor Terrace, Carroll Gardens). We have not ventured into any of the bars in the neighborhood yet, but I have to say that I've been curious about some of them--and would love love love to find a place with a good beer selection on tap (wishful thinking at this point, I'd say). I would definitely be interested in seeing a coffee shop here (I drink a hell of a lot of Vietnamese iced coffee from Ba Xuyen, and while it's tasty, I could use a straight-up cup of coffee every now and then that isn't deli coffee). There are a number of storefronts sitting empty on 8th Avenue in the 40s; I often walk by them and think that if I were an entrepreneur, I'd open that coffee shop or some such....

sunsetpete · July 2007

Raedog,

Thanks for responding. It does seem like there has to be an opportunity for an entrepreneur somewhere in the neighborhood along these lines. The key, of course, is that the joint would need to be both a welcoming place for everyone in the neighborhood while still signaling that it is something *different*.

So, for instance, a coffee shop on 5th would need to have bilingual staff, obviously, but would also need a decor, ambience, and menu that clearly signaled "college town" more than "strip mall" (which is the current feel of most of the retail and restaurant business currently on 5th). Something like Vox Pop (http://www.voxpopnet.net/)---or hell, an offshoot *of* Vox Pop---would be great.

A bar would be a lot more difficult, in fact probably not worth the effort. The potential for bad relations with the community would be very high. I would think instead that simply descending on an existing place on a regular basis might do the trick. Melody Lanes, for example, could serve the role of a viable hangout if only new arrivals thought of it primarily as a watering hole, rather than as a bowling alley that just happens to have a bar. I've also wondered if the place on 38th and 5th (can't recall the name, but judging by the facade, it's been there longer than nearly everything else on the block) might be a good candidate for more newbie gatherings.

raedog · July 2007

SunsetPete--just sent you a pm, but thought I'd second your suggestion of a Vox Pop-style coffee shop on 5th or 8th, or better yet, Gorilla, which roasts its coffee in Sunset Park on 41st between 2nd and 3rd. And a newbie gathering would be excellent. Any takers?

lostingreenwoodhts · July 2007

Great topic, I have upgraded it (though I'm in GWH

).

Can we get some more "new" and "old" SSP residents to post?

kikintina · July 2007

Subject: Coffee

For coffee: I suggest the bakeries on 5th in the 40's. I've only had the cafe con leche, but I'm sure the regular coffee is worth a try. However, I'd love to see an actual coffee shop sprout up.

Does anyone know what's moving in to the space on 6th Ave in the upper 40's?

lostingreenwoodhts · July 2007

Added a cross post to "Brooklyn & Beyond" to hopefully generate a little more dialog. Come on you Sunset Parkers, we know you are out there!

santa · July 2007

ive only been living in brooklyn for 3 months (park slope) and after visiting Sunset once I wanted to move. Its a tad suburban feeling and the lack of bars around the D subway stops is alittle sad since thats where most people working in Manhattan would want to live. Overall I think its great and would think about moving there when my lease is up.

I met someone who grew up in sunset park around 4th ave and 50th and she said it wasnt safe for white people but I didnt get that vibe at all. Maybe she just wanted people to stay out.

sunsetpete · July 2007

Santa wrote: I met someone who grew up in sunset park around 4th ave and 50th and she said it wasnt safe for white people but I didnt get that vibe at all. Maybe she just wanted people to stay out.

She probably wants, understandably enough, to do her part to prevent the majority-Hispanic population in the western half of SP from being displaced by gentrification (the eastern half, dominated by Brooklyn's Chinatown, seems increasingly sheltered from such displacement). She also might be speaking from past experience, rather than from present realities. That said, if the influx of white new arrivals happens very quickly, there's always a chance that that trend could inspire a backlash among its long-time residents. But such things are hard to gauge and predict, and in the meantime, we all need someplace to live!

santa · July 2007

I am more interested in the area around the D trains. I love the grand street area of the LES and was glad to see a similar area which I could afford to live in that had a fast commute to work.

lostingreenwoodhts · July 2007

the eastern half, dominated by Brooklyn's Chinatown, seems increasingly sheltered from such displacement

It's it's own gentrification issue is part of itself. Old immigrant vs. new. Old housing vs. the need for new housing.

Sheltered perhaps, different, not really.

sunsetpete · July 2007

LIGWH,

Yeah, I didn't put it very well, but I was just saying that the portion of SP that is predominantly Asian (betw. 7th and 9th and 40th and 60th) is likely to stay that way for a long while. The Chinese community is putting down pretty solid roots there. By contrast, I've heard from several folks on my side of the tracks, especially Dominicans, that they and people they know are saving money to move out of the city altogether (northeastern PA, along the Delaware River, is apparently the site of a mini-boomlet of Latino settlement). This is all impressionistic, granted, but what it adds up to for me is a sense that 7th Avenue will be the dividing line: east of it will not really be "gentrified" by new arrivals, west of it may (or may not) be.

santa · July 2007

I dont think you really understand. East of 7th ave has already been "gentrified" by new comers. It just so happens those new comers were asian.

sunsetpete · July 2007

sure, santa, I understand. That's why I said, in the "Will Sunset Park be gentrified" board:

" The Asian community *is* gentrifying, in their way, the Eastern edge of Sunset Park. The surest measure of this is a walk--with your eyes open--along 8th Avenue from 50th to 60th Streets. Count the number of new storefronts. The number of *banks*, especially. Along the residential blocks that surround 8th Avenue, notice the number of condo developments, and the number of brownstones that now have the nifty (yes, I'm being sarcastic) silver and brass fencing, and that have converted their ground-floor into a garage. This may not be the form of 'gentrification' that folks on these boards love to bemoan (in Park Slope, for example), but it is definitely a form of neighborhood defacement. The garage-building is especially ugly, clearly expensive for the people who choose to do it, and has effects that detract, rather than add to, the community overall. Sounds like gentrification to me."

rydnas · July 2007

Subject: Lived here since Oct. 2002

I have lived here since October of 2002 and definitely notice a change. I live on 33rd St. and see a big change in the type of people living here now. Whenever my boyfriend and I are walking on the street we are like, "Where did all these people come from?" It is interesting to see a neighborhood change so quickly. I have a car and can drive to the grocery store. But, I am interested in where most other people go for groceries around the area?

sunsetpete · July 2007

If you have a car, and eat-in frequently enough that you can imagine yourself using up the larger-sized portions sold there, you should definitely consider a Costco membership. Alternatively, or additionally, you might consider joining the Park Slope Food Coop, if you're not already a member. Their prices (and the quality of their produce and dry goods) really can't be beat. I've always been a pretty skeptical person about the PSFC, but I have to admit that, ultimately, it's worth the minor hassles.

rydnas · July 2007

Yeah, I go to Costco because it is so close. I also drive to Fairway sometimes. The problem with the Coop for me is having to work there some days. I know it isn't much, but I just don't have the time to do that. I'm lucky though because I have a garden and during the summer (like now) I can grow my own food!

ruby · July 2007

Subject: Re: Lived here since Oct. 2002

rydnas wrote: I have lived here since October of 2002 and definitely notice a change. I live on 33rd St. and see a big change in the type of people living here now. Whenever my boyfriend and I are walking on the street we are like, "Where did all these people come from?" It is interesting to see a neighborhood change so quickly. I have a car and can drive to the grocery store. But, I am interested in where most other people go for groceries around the area?

My edge of Sunset Park is still unchanged from the past year, I live on 56th. The area is popluated by working class families but I have begun to notice the influx of hipsters down by the stations on 4th.

I don't even bother with supermarkets anymore - I just shop at the markets on 8th - you can buy anything there, mayonaisse, olive oil, butter, rice, fish, bread, veg, meat, dried seahorses - it's fun to shop there and it's a whole lot cheaper and tastier than store-bought food.

ruby · July 2007

Subject: Re: UPGRADED: Sunset Park New Arrivals

SunsetPete wrote: I've lived in Sunset Park for 3+ years, and am just starting to notice what looks to me like a near-critical-mass of 20-somethings and 30-somethings arriving from elsewhere. It's beginning to feel a little bit like southside Williamsburg nearly a decade ago. What I'm wondering is the following:

--Are any of these new arrivals on these discussion boards?

--If so, how long have you lived in Sunset?

--Do you think you'll stay for 1 year? 2 years? 5? Longer?

--Do you actually spend time in the neighborhood with friends? If so, where do you hang out? If not, do you think you would spend more time in the neighborhood if there *were* a place where you felt comfortable hanging out?

(Just to clarify, since the overall board here blends the south slope and Sunset Park, I'm not talking about folks who live in "Greenwood Heights"---I'm talking about people who live between 36th Street and 60th Street between 3rd and 8th Aves)

I am in the heart of this area, I've lived on 56th for over a year
I moved from Billyburg unable to afford the high rents and horrid hipster roommates and thouroughly weary of the ineffectual L train.
Sunset Park seems to be the only area of Brooklyn that makes sense to me. It's affordable, safe, friendly and convenient. It's safe because there are no wealthy people to mug and no bars where vulnerable drunks might become easy targets on their weavy walks home - so if people start opening bars and fancy hangouts, all that could change. This part of Sunset Park is entirely made up of working class families and communities that have lived here for decades - another reason the area is safe. I rarely see a cop round here.

To answer your question, I do not spend time in the area with friends, nobody is likely to travel all this way to hang out, and Park Slope is close enough and full of bars - starting from 23rd Street...

If I were planning on staying in Ny, this is where I would choose to live
The rest of NY and BK is becomming totally unaffordable, so the influx of harry hipsters is bound to increase

barndorfer · August 2007

Well, my wife and I are just about to make the move to Sunset Park. We're in the midst of buying a coop on 44th across from the park. We've rented in Park Slope for 5 years and have been wanting to buy a place for a while now. A good friend of mine lives in Sunset Park (40th street), so thanks to him we've hung out in the neighborhood a lot over the past years and really like it. Of course, it doesn't hurt that the property here seems cheaper than any of the other places we've been looking. Either way, we're excited to be moving and plan on staying for a long while...

jane_birkin · August 2007

Re the above comment about SP "not being safe for white people"...I grew up in Bay Ridge, and that was definitely what all the white people in Bay Ridge believed. We weren't supposed to venture below 60th street. How much was based on actual crime and violent acts and how much was racism against the Latino population I can't quite say. This was a good 15-20 years ago. (There was definitely racism against the Asian communities in the area, but there were a lot fewer Asians in the area then.) The sense I have is that the neighborhood became a lot more family-oriented over the years...that the Latino families wanted the area to be safer and exerted more influence in the community to make that happen. I personally feel completely safe in SP these days above the Gowanus, and below the Gowanus I feel unsafe because I'm a woman, not because I'm white.
/blah blah blah

onthegojoe86 · August 2007

my boyfriend and I have been in the land where the sun sets since 2005; he's been here since 2004- he was living at a friend's townhouse on 33rd, when i moved in with him. after a brief stint in south slope, we moved between 38th and 39th on fifth and love the cheap rent (stabilized), huge terrace we have, and the convenience of a 24 hour diner and laundromat across the street, not to mention the new maria's mexican bistro they just opened a few store fronts away from our place...yeah, we've been living here with our skinny jeans and messenger bags and ipods on since before the newly apparent influx of other young twenty somethings that we've been noticing, as well

curlygirl · September 2007

Subject: Re: UPGRADED: Sunset Park New Arrivals

My husband (and dog) and I are 30 somethings. Actually, he's a 40 something, but that's new and he acts like a 30 something. We bought our house three years ago -- in the mid-40s, b/w 4th and 5th.

How long will we stay? Well, we have a 7 year ARM, and so we might be forced out then, but I love it here and don't want to leave. We're planning to start a family, and so schools would be a big part of any decision to leave.

I've tried hanging out at the Rainbow (the bar on 5th/38th or so), but the beer is kind of nasty. But the vibe can be friendly, at least to women. I love the park, especially the pool.

Aside from the wish for a coffeeshop (second the motion for Gorilla -- I had no idea it was brewed by us, makes me love it even more), and a bar with good beer and a vibe where I felt less like an invader, I wish the park that's going in down by the water was going to have a running track.

delbrians · September 2007

I've been in SP a few years now. At first I felt self-conscious because I stood out (being white and professional, etc.), but I have found the people in the neighborhood to be friendlier than any part of Manhattan. The bodega owners are always happy to get your business, and random people along 5th ave are generally polite and courteous.

I think SP has the potential to be a petri dish of positive gentrification and in some degree proof of an american dream (should people really believe in such a thing). The current latino and asian residents have their own economies and own real estate and this makes them here to stay. If the minority business owners/landlords are smart enough to embrace the "new people" (the idea of an old vs. new is so relative it shouldn't exist in NYC) then they will be very successful.

But to the point of the discussion...there are plenty of good bars in the teens and 20's on 5th ave. that I haven't been in need of one in SP. As far as food goes, I'm italian so I'd like a good italian restaurant, or at least a vendor that sells italian products and vegetables. The lack of coffee shops has forced me to eat and brew at home, which is ultimately a good thing.

armchair_warrior · September 2007

Santa wrote: ive only been living in brooklyn for 3 months (park slope) and after visiting Sunset once I wanted to move. Its a tad suburban feeling and the lack of bars around the D subway stops is alittle sad since thats where most people working in Manhattan would want to live. Overall I think its great and would think about moving there when my lease is up.

I met someone who grew up in sunset park around 4th ave and 50th and she said it wasnt safe for white people but I didnt get that vibe at all. Maybe she just wanted people to stay out.

when i was a kid you didn't really cross six ave. cause you got chased and beaten by the Hispanic kids and not below 50th st.

other wise in the white areas you just get cursed at and made fun of. slightly safer in the white area for asians. some times you get chased too.

this was about 15 to 20 years ago.

lostingreenwoodhts · September 2007

Things change. Demographics, attitudes and comfortability.

Having gone through the "ghetto years" in Ft. Greene in the 80's, it had to do most about YOUR attitude and comfortability, then most folks left you alone, if not ignored you all together...that was until the 2000's and it became tony again. Then you had to worry about being stared down by hipsters, not perps or suspicious locals from back in the day. Go figure. And glad we moved.

I'd say every nave has some "iffy spots" but I have never felt unsafe in SSP, perhaps out of my element at times, never unsafe.

quencam · April 2008

Subject: Moving to Brooklyn in June 2008

Hello all...

I am moving to Brooklyn from Connecticut in June to start a 2 yr. residency at Lutheran Medical Center. I looking for a place that is safe and close to the hospital. Does anyone have any suggestions. Sunset Park sounds like a nice area. How is parking in Brooklyn? Should I keep my car? Any help would be appreciated. :roll:

Thank you

lostingreenwoodhts · April 2008

If you are going to be at Lutheran, definitely Sunset Park.

kikintina · April 2008

If you take a look at craigslist.org for Brooklyn, just type in "sunset park" and see what comes up. If you can, you might want to get a fellow resident to be a roommate, especially since you are unfamiliar with the area. It's sometimes more fun and comfortable to explore a new place with a buddy.

I know of several 2 br apts for rent between 1200-1600. You can get cheaper, and you can get more pricey.

Good luck!

rnt · April 2008

Sunset park is definitely the place to be. Parking is not really a problem like it is in the Slope but you have to deal with alternate side of the street parking rules for street cleaning. But that is throughout the city.

Sunset Park New Arrivals

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