Mothers vs. Hipsters--is the divide that great?
Comments
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[quote="Livetotravel"]Wow, germfree - your choice of descriptive terms to describe mothers and nannies speaks volumes...."nanny 'gang' to be a phalanx of rather intimidating women..." vs. "ragtag bunch of mums chasing after our kids..." Got issues?
Er, no. I was describing the scene in high school cafeteria terms, and there was no "vs." as inserted by you.
I have issues aplenty, but not regarding this. -
>>In the playgounds I always found the nanny 'gang' to be a phalanx of rather intimidating women who all sat together and seemingly knew each other. On the other side of the playground/cafeteria was a ragtag bunch of mums chasing after our kids, and, dare I say, monitoring their interaction with the kids whose nannies weren't paid enough to look after them sufficiently. >>--Germ Free
Yes but your post does imply an us versus them attitude when you say rag tag moms having to also watch after kids that the nannys are not sufficiently watching. Makes it sound like a nice bunch of fun loving, harried moms not only caring for their own rambunctious charges but also for the kids of the working moms whose nanny's are just sitting around gabbing in a gang. I see from above you didn't mean it but it sure came across as judgmental against nannys (or those who leave nannys in charge of their kids). I actually have found that the nanny's interfere MORE then the parents when a kid hits, bites or bullies. Last week, a boy bit my son in the playground. My nanny went up to the father and told him that Jake just bit my son and the father responded. "Oh, I didn't see that." *Most* nannies would have jumped in and separated the biter and said no and apologize. -
WTGirl wrote:
much as i know i'm going to get reamed for this, doesn't this follow/back up the stories about how some park slope parents let their kids run wild--kicking, biting, etc--without consequence?
Yes but your post does imply an us versus them attitude when you say rag tag moms having to also watch after kids that the nannys are not sufficiently watching. Makes it sound like a nice bunch of fun loving, harried moms not only caring for their own rambunctious charges but also for the kids of the working moms whose nanny's are just sitting around gabbing in a gang. I see from above you didn't mean it but it sure came across as judgmental against nannys (or those who leave nannys in charge of their kids). I actually have found that the nanny's interfere MORE then the parents when a kid hits, bites or bullies. Last week, a boy bit my son in the playground. My nanny went up to the father and told him that Jake just bit my son and the father responded. "Oh, I didn't see that." *Most* nannies would have jumped in and separated the biter and said no and apologize. -
I don't think anyone has a problem with breastfeeding, in public or not (when a kid's gotta eat, a kid's gotta eat), but why can't women be more discreet about it? Is it really so difficult to throw a blanket over your boob? I was in Applewood a few months ago and got distracted during my meal by a breastfeeding mama. Not only did I think it was an inappropriate place to whip it out, it made me wonder why the couple didn't get a sitter for the night so they could enjoy a nice meal alone.
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i think there's a giant different between discretion and outright flaunting, and that's what i'm seeing.
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brooklynpotter wrote: much as i know i'm going to get reamed for this, doesn't this follow/back up the stories about how some park slope parents let their kids run wild--kicking, biting, etc--without consequence?
Of course it does. Every anecdote about something backs up something about how some people behave. And someone else can pull out their anecdote about the self-absorbed single guy with his cell phone, and someone else can weigh in on the oblivious dogwalker with the million-mile leash and we can all take a ride on that wonderful merry-go-round again.
But -- just to keep it on topic, I'll stick with breastfeeding here -- to me all the Two Boots story proves is the power of the Good Anecdote That Sums Up the Thing That Happens to Bug Me Personally.
Yeah, I think women should be able to breastfeed in public, and yeah, I think there are more considerate ways to do it than to whip out a whole boob, National Geographic style. But honest to God, how often has anyone here actually seen this happen, ever? I've lived around here for 15-odd years, 10 of those years as a childless person. And I'm a heterosexual man who does not tend to ignore boobies. I can't say I've ever seen an incident like the one in the NYTimes. Some top boob on occasion; a little sideboob here and there. The whole organ right out there in the open air? Not even at Tea Lounge.
Also, the thing in the article about the women taking up 29 of 30 tables? Call me crazy, but I'm guessing a slight exaggeration. -
what's so gross about boobies? i don't get it. :-k
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nothing's gross about boobies. i think they're swell. but i think the flaunting of boobies in regard to breastfeeding is gross. (as opposed to flaunting with a push-up bra, which i'm all for)
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sweet tea wrote: what's so gross about boobies? i don't get it. :-k
Penises are great, just like boobies, but I don't want to see anyone whip his out to do certain things in public, either. -
see, that just kills the pro-breastfeeding argument
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brooklynpotter wrote: see, that just kills the pro-breastfeeding argument
How is "I have to feed my kid right now!" (said whilst whipping out booby in the Tea Lounge) different than "I have to pee right now!" (said whilst peeing against a brownstone) when it comes down to it? Both can be done in private and with discretion. They're both bodily functions.
I'm sure I will be raked over the coals for this view. -
linusvanpelt wrote: Yeah, I think women should be able to breastfeed in public, and yeah, I think there are more considerate ways to do it than to whip out a whole boob, National Geographic style. But honest to God, how often has anyone here actually seen this happen, ever? I've lived around here for 15-odd years, 10 of those years as a childless person. And I'm a heterosexual man who does not tend to ignore boobies. I can't say I've ever seen an incident like the one in the NYTimes. Some top boob on occasion; a little sideboob here and there. The whole organ right out there in the open air? Not even at Tea Lounge.
Saw whole boob and nipple at that big playground in Central Park last time I was there. Arg. The one with all the rocks that starts with an H on the West side, pretty far south. Anyway, she done whipped it on out. Sitting next to me on a bench. I was watching my kidlets play. When she got done with the one side, she pulled out the other one, National Geographic style over the top of her stretchy tank top. Not Park Slope, but hey, you get it where you can, right? Haha. Anyway, they were really nice breasts and she was nice looking too, so it wasn't bad in that sense. Although I feel like a cad for saying that! But it definitely made me feel a bit uncomfortable. Every time my kids ran over to that side I felt weird about watching them because I was afraid she would think I was staring at her tits. In retrospect, the fact that she whipped them out like that probably meant that she wouldn't have cared one iota anyway, so I suppose that is my own hang up. Oh well.
I suppose the bottom line for me is that it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, which I suspect is because I'm not used to it. I'm for whatever they want to do with their boobs in public, and I'll get over it. Outright flaunting seems wrong to me, but I'm not sure who should get to draw the line. -
Baby Fishmouth wrote: How is "I have to feed my kid right now!" (said whilst whipping out booby in the Tea Lounge) different than "I have to pee right now!" (said whilst peeing against a brownstone) when it comes down to it? Both can be done in private and with discretion. They're both bodily functions.
No coals, but I can draw this line pretty easy. If you can't, however, I'm not sure I can explain it adequately.
I'm sure I will be raked over the coals for this view. -
sweet tea wrote: what's so gross about boobies? i don't get it. :-k
Now what were you saying again?
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Baby Fishmouth wrote: How is "I have to feed my kid right now!" (said whilst whipping out booby in the Tea Lounge) different than "I have to pee right now!" (said whilst peeing against a brownstone) when it comes down to it? Both can be done in private and with discretion. They're both bodily functions.
For the latter bodily function, restaurants build a special room so that you can do it in private and with discretion.
And you know what, why should they? Why should they spent extra money on construction, plumbing and supplies--all of which costs go into my dinner bill--because you feel entitled to take a whizz wherever and whenever you want to? Hey, I make a point of going to the bathroom before I go out to enjoy a nice meal. If you can't hold it in for a couple hours, stay home and cook dinner. Damn. It's not my problem. -
Can we at least agree that breastfeeding would be a lot more fun if nursing moms said, "Excuse me while I whip this out" ala Cleavon Little in "Blazing Saddles"?
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sweet tea wrote: what's so gross about boobies? i don't get it. :-k
Nothing but that word: "boobies." Can we have a funeral for that word? -
germfree! wrote: [quote=sweet tea]what's so gross about boobies? i don't get it. :-k
Nothing but that word: "boobies." Can we have a funeral for that word?
Only if we can kill "panties" at the same time. -
caaahyoko wrote: [quote=sweet tea]what's so gross about boobies? i don't get it. :-k
Now what were you saying again?
good point, except i DO have to look at that all summer, at the park, the beach, and other public places (granted, not restaurants). (and, although it's not a look i find alluring, i'm not losing sleep over it, either.) -
Baby Fishmouth wrote: [quote=germfree!][quote=sweet tea]what's so gross about boobies? i don't get it. :-k
Nothing but that word: "boobies." Can we have a funeral for that word?
Only if we can kill "panties" at the same time.
I was going to mention that, but feared the storm of controversy. And i can't bring myself to actually type it. That word has got to go. -
At Ronald McDonald house they did just that. When the mother of a child with a brain tumor wanted to nurse; she had to ANNOUNCE that she was going to breastfeed. Isn't that a little weirder?!!
And as far as discretion--there are plenty of ways. I too have mixed feelings about wht was described--Boing Boing is a store that sells nursing clothing--why aren't women wearing those?
Daver, I appreciate your honesty, I think most men are made a little uncomfortable--and that's normal, cultural.
Hmmmm
" Is it ok to look? Look again? I mean, she has it out anyway?!"
I'm a dad, I can look, Oh no! My wife saw me looking! I'll tell her how much I love our kids."
"I'm looking on approvingly, why is she giving me a dirty look?!"
(This is way too much fun)
The nanny debate should TOTALLY be another thread. I'm ready to rumble. But first, I have to go get my pedicure and defrizz my hair, as Erikka so duly noted. -
I am actually shocked that so many of you men are drawn to staring at a breastfeeding breast. I can tell you that was one time my breast felt totally UNATTRACTIVE and it never would have occurred to me in 10 MILLION years that anyone would want to be looking at my milk squirting teat. There was nothin' sexy about it. Americans are way way too hung up on breasts. RELAX--it is only a boobie afterall.
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The Chipster wrote: for Jackie Mercado who lost custody of her child for 6 MONTHS after nursing him at Eckerd's because she was charged with "sexual performance on a child"
Whoa. I'm sorry I don't know this, but who is Jackie Mercado? And did that really happen?? -
Quigley wrote: [quote=The Chipster] for Jackie Mercado who lost custody of her child for 6 MONTHS after nursing him at Eckerd's because she was charged with "sexual performance on a child"
Whoa. I'm sorry I don't know this, but who is Jackie Mercado? And did that really happen??
That isn't _exactly_ what happened. Her and her husband took some explicit pics and had them developed at Eckerd's, where the employee called the cops. It was in TX, and as I recall it ended up being chalked up to different customs for where they are from. Google it. -
Thanks, Daver. I found an article, and yeah, it's still disturbing, but The Chipster's description was a little misleading. She wasn't actually breastfeeding AT an Eckerd's and that caused her to lost custody of her child... because THAT would have been completely insane.
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caseopele wrote: Many things should be the cultural norm here but they aren't. And comparing the woman at Two Boots with Jackie Mercado is inappropriate. Since no one else has brought it up then I will. Bare breasts are bare breasts. Why does the act of breastfeeding make it okay to expose yourself? If one group of women are allowed to show their boobs then all women should be allowed to show their boobs. And I don't have a problem with women breastfeeding in public. I have a problem with women who do it in such a way as to attract as much attention as possible. I don't romanticize mothers in other countries while criticizing mothers here. I don't romanticize mothers at all. I refuse to believe that there's just no way at all to breastfeed without letting it all hang out.
I might be wrong, but I believe that it's completely legal for a woman to be topless within NYC. Technically, anyone can expose themselves. And thankfully I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation b/c I haven't seen anyone breastfeeding in the slope. -
Matrick wrote: I might be wrong, but I believe that it's completely legal for a woman to be topless within NYC. Technically, anyone can expose themselves. And thankfully I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation b/c I haven't seen anyone breastfeeding in the slope.
"NEW YORK — A woman arrested for exposing her breasts has accepted a $29,000 settlement from the city, her lawyer said.
Jill Coccaro, 27, was arrested on a topless stroll two years ago, despite a 1992 state appeals court ruling that concluded women should have the same right as men to take off their shirts."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/bizarre/4901903.html -
daver wrote: [quote=Matrick]I might be wrong, but I believe that it's completely legal for a woman to be topless within NYC. Technically, anyone can expose themselves. And thankfully I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation b/c I haven't seen anyone breastfeeding in the slope.
"NEW YORK — A woman arrested for exposing her breasts has accepted a $29,000 settlement from the city, her lawyer said.
Jill Coccaro, 27, was arrested on a topless stroll two years ago, despite a 1992 state appeals court ruling that concluded women should have the same right as men to take off their shirts."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/bizarre/4901903.html
Yeah, the police took her into custody and harassed her like the pricks they are, but she was never charged because it's legal. -
Jesus Christ!! If you by mean explicit--that she was nurisng her child--Holy Crap! OK, it was a while ago, and maybe I didn't have the story exactly right--but she was A BREASTFEEDING MOTHER who LOST HER CHILD for 6 months. And if you think it's explicit to take pics of mommy and baby--call the CPS on every parent; including yours.
I certainly didn't mean to be misleading, but the vagaries of the law affect us all.
I thought it was from nursing in public--the point remains--the laws aren't federally mandated or consistent. How can WHO, UNICEF, the CDC, etc...encourage breastfeeding for at least 6 months when our government doesn't protect them?
Seacrest Out.
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