Nice Job 77 Precinct!!

king without a crown · July 2007

7Online.com: New York City and Tri-State News from WABC-TV[
Police shot and killed a suspected armed carjacker after he reportedly went on a rampage - stole a couple of cars and opened fire on several drivers.
Eyewitness News reporter Jeff Pegues has the latest from Crown Heights.

This suspect was one man crime spree. Witnesses say there were dozens of shots fired on the block.

Police sources say the suspect carjacked a silver Dodge Durango and then, drove away crashing it into a store at the corner of Troy and Pacific Streets.

"He lost control and he rammed into a store there," said eyewitness Johnny Manley. "And he jumped out of the car like he was kind of nervous."

From there, the suspect ran down Pacific Street. Police sources say he shot motorists in a car on the street attempting to carjack.

He kept on going until he carjacked a silver livery cab and then, he crashed the vehicle into a light pole at Albany and Park Place.

Witnesses tried to help him.

"We saw oil coming out, but he still doesn't respond. He continued to search on the bottom of the floor for whatever he was looking for," said eyewitness Kema Robinson. "That would be a pistol."

After more gun fire, police ordered the suspect to drop the gun, but the suspect fired back. Police shot the suspect after that.

Police say a gun recovered at the scene.

The suspect later died at Kings County Hospital.

The person shot by the suspect was transported to Kings County Hospital with non life threatening injuries.

Officials say the suspect may have been upset about an argument that he had with his girl friend.

MOD · July 2007

Subject: Re: Nice Job 77 Precinct!!

King without a crown wrote: Officials say the suspect may have been upset about an argument that he had with his girl friend.

Upset :shock: over a fight with your girlfriend???
You had worse problems than that buddy

emily · July 2007

There was a big article about this in the NYT, too. Crazy!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/nyregion/08shoot.html

ilikesausage · July 2007

Tidal wave of "police brutality" whiners in 3...2...1...

pitu · July 2007

Ilikesausage wrote: Tidal wave of "police brutality" whiners in 3...2...1...

Hey sausage, IF you want reasonable discussion, post something a little more substantial.
I recall you've objected to being called trolly or flamebait or something on these boards...

The question I have, as in most cases where the police kill or beat up someone is
Do you want a police officer in a stressed situation to be the one to decide, as s/he's running down Pacific Street, who lives or dies that day?
Do you want every crime to be a capital crime?
Do you want to cut off the hands of someone caught stealing?
(If so, there's plenty of other places in the world that embrace that sort of justice system.)

x-brooklynite · July 2007

Emily wrote: There was a big article about this in the NYT, too. Crazy!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/nyregion/08shoot.html

Is PCP making a comeback in nyc? :P

homeowner · July 2007

Pitu, I totally get where you are coming from, but I've got to say that someone who has carjacked two cars, fired shots at innocent unarmed civilians and generally behaved like he was out of his mind shouldn't be afforded the benefit of the doubt.

Unfortunately, the cops pretty much only have two options:

1) Ask the person to stop
2) Shoot

Perhaps if policing were changed to focus on non-lethal methods for subduing folks then we could say "The cops shouldn't be able to decide who lives and dies that day", but if a cop is being shot at by someone who is clearly in the wrong (and out of his mind), I think they should be able to use an equal level of force to respond.

medusa · July 2007

X-brooklynite wrote: [quote=Emily]There was a big article about this in the NYT, too. Crazy!

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/nyregion/08shoot.html

Is PCP making a comeback in nyc? :P

I know! Whenever I will forever associate PCP with the episode of "The White Shadow" where I first heard of it. It does seem to be pretty readily available in NYC, though. And not just for the retro-hungry.

king without a crown · July 2007

Do you want a police officer in a stressed situation to be the one to decide, as s/he's running down Pacific Street, who lives or dies that day?
Do you want every crime to be a capital crime?
Do you want to cut off the hands of someone caught stealing?
(If so, there's plenty of other places in the world that embrace that sort of justice system.)

Hmmm... Lets see, let me think about that one for a minute... Yes I'd like the Police to do their job and stop a violent Felon, CarJacking and shooting innocent people on the street. Maybe they should've give him a "Time Out".

pitu · July 2007

Hey, you didn't answer my question!

I want the police to do their job.
What does police doing their job mean to you?
Outside the hyperbole, there's plenty of other choices between a timeout and killing someone. Nobody here is calling for cupcakes for criminals.

It's dangerous to say everything the pd does is right, just because they are supposed to be doing right. So incidents where police kill begs the question for me -- who wants to say death penalty for theft?
I don't, and I think it's important that we are aware of what we are talking about when we applaud such actions. When I read about that happening in Saudi Arabia, I think it's awful and I'm glad we have a better justice system than they do. Or at least I'm pretty sure we do...

And I want the police to act better than the drug crazed lunatic.

emily · July 2007

I have to agree with homeowner and KWAC that this isn't the case to belabor those questions, even if they make sense in general. First, he did multiple carjackings in the space of an hour. Then, he brandished his gun at a paramedic who was trying to help him after he crashed one of the cars. Then, when the cops told him to drop the gun, he started firing back...

New York Times: wrote: all the while weaving in and out of parked cars and slowly making his way up the south side of Park Place toward Troy Avenue as bystanders, including children, dove for cover and shattered glass flew.

In this case, I'm not really sure how the police were supposed to attempt to effect a choice between a timeout and killing someone.

king without a crown · July 2007

We are not talking about a Death Penalty for theft. We are discussing an incident where a crazed individual, Robbed someone of their vehicle, drove to his childs mothers house, shot at her door, than fled in the vehicle while intoxicated, crashes the car, unsuccesfully attempts to steal another car, than shoots at the occupants of that vehicle missing his target and striking a man sitting in another car. He than carjacks another vehicle, crashes again, menaces the EMS workers with his gun who are trying to help him ,then starts firing his weapon at responding officers. After being wounded, he still continues to shoot back at the Police.
If you decided to shift your focus to the Brave Police Officers protecting you and your family from the actions of this miscreant, whose actions directly lead to his own demise. Than its people like you, we should all be fearful of!

pitu · July 2007

I'll agree that this case isn't the one that immediately begs for policing reform, but it is the worst cases that test our values. I was initially reacting to the idea that it was great to rejoice about this guy getting killed.

There's another story about it today in the NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/09/nyregion/09shoot.html?ex=1341720000&en=b95fc08fd6b0d9ee&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink

ilikesausage · July 2007

pitu wrote: [quote=Ilikesausage]Tidal wave of "police brutality" whiners in 3...2...1...

Hey sausage, IF you want reasonable discussion, post something a little more substantial.
I recall you've objected to being called trolly or flamebait or something on these boards...

The question I have, as in most cases where the police kill or beat up someone is
Do you want a police officer in a stressed situation to be the one to decide, as s/he's running down Pacific Street, who lives or dies that day?
Do you want every crime to be a capital crime?
Do you want to cut off the hands of someone caught stealing?
(If so, there's plenty of other places in the world that embrace that sort of justice system.)

Just telling it how it is.

Common sense would say no, I would not want to live in such a world. Police should have limits, and they do. I absolutley do not advocate what happened to Sean Bell, Louima, Diallo, et al.

I also want to live in a world where assholes don't smoke a pound of PCP, jack some poor shmoes car, run through the neighborhood possibly stirking anybody, and then decide to cap off the festivites by littering a public street with shell casings. that too is common sense.

Yeah, he was running. He was also firing a weapon indiscrimintly in a residental neighborhood. You forgot to read that part.

anonymous · July 2007

The guy basically committed suicide. The cops had no choice but to kill him, and if the city gave them better guns and better training it would have taken a lot less than 136 shots. Kudos to the NYPD that no bystanders got hit and thanks for taking a maniac off the street.

king without a crown · July 2007

No one here is rejoicing about a man being killed. The initial post was to commend the fine men and women, who put their lives on the line every single day to make this city safe for you and me. With that being said, being involved in a shooting is extremely stressful for all parties involved. These officers are not high-fiving each other that they killed someone. They will live with that for the rest of their lives, so lets no turn this into a political debate. Just be thankful thats there's people out there to do a job many wouldnt do! Remember while all those kids and adults are diving for cover from the flying bullets, these cops ran right into the line of fire.

daver · July 2007

I agree that this one was a total case of suicide by cop. I don't want cops making the choices about who lives and dies, but I do want them to keep me and everyone safe. From what I can tell, there was absolutely no choice to be made in this one, they did what they had to. Repeatedly. I wonder what caused this guy to lose it so badly. Too bad that he had access to firearms, otherwise he might be getting the help that he needed right now rather than being laid out. I feel badly for his girl and child. I also feel badly for the officers that were forced to use deadly force against him. They are victims too, it is difficult to do what they had to do. I don't see a lot of choice for them in this one.

Nice Job 77 Precinct!!

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