MERGED: New day, another shooting in Crown Heights
Unlike the previous shooting, this one didn't end up so fortunately for the cops.
If this is going to be Tombstone, who is going to play the part of Wyatt Earp?
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July 9, 2007
2 Police Officers Shot in Brooklyn
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 8:24 a.m. ET
NEW YORK (AP) -- Two New York City police officers were shot and wounded during a Brooklyn traffic stop on Monday, including one who was gravely injured, authorities said.
An intense manhunt was underway for three occupants of a stolen sport utility vehicle; the shots apparently were fired by two of them, police said.
"The suspects in this brazen shooting are still at large," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said at a news conference at Kings County Hospital, where the officers were taken.
A security video near the scene captured the shooting; another video showed three men, believed to be the suspects, ducking into a driveway after seeing a patrol car approach.
"One will recover and one is clinging to life. I ask all New Yorkers to pray for their recovery," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said of the officers.
Officer Russell Timoshenko, 23, was shot in the face and neck, and was in "extremely critical condition," said Kelly.
Bloomberg said that while meeting with Timoshenko's parents, he gave them "thanks from a concerned city."
Officer Herman Yan, 26, shot in the chest and left forearm, was in stable condition. "We have every reason to believe that his life was saved by his bulletproof vest," Kelly said.
The incident occurred at 2:30 a.m. in the Crown Heights section when the two officers pulled over a black BMW SUV that had license plates belonging to another car.
Kelly said the uniformed officers approached the SUV and someone inside it started shooting, hitting Timoshenko first. Yan returned fire but was hit too, Kelly said.
Police found the SUV abandoned near the shooting scene. Inside it were two .45-caliber shell casings, Kelly said. The SUV, and the plates from the second vehicle, had been stolen from a Long Island dealership.
Police said Timoshenko, of Staten Island, joined the department in January 2006. Yan, of Brooklyn, joined three years ago.
"The terrible events are proof once again of the unfortunate truth that guns, when they fall into the hands of the wrong people, have tragic consequences," said Bloomberg.
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If this is going to be Tombstone, who is going to play the part of Wyatt Earp?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 9, 2007
2 Police Officers Shot in Brooklyn
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 8:24 a.m. ET
NEW YORK (AP) -- Two New York City police officers were shot and wounded during a Brooklyn traffic stop on Monday, including one who was gravely injured, authorities said.
An intense manhunt was underway for three occupants of a stolen sport utility vehicle; the shots apparently were fired by two of them, police said.
"The suspects in this brazen shooting are still at large," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said at a news conference at Kings County Hospital, where the officers were taken.
A security video near the scene captured the shooting; another video showed three men, believed to be the suspects, ducking into a driveway after seeing a patrol car approach.
"One will recover and one is clinging to life. I ask all New Yorkers to pray for their recovery," Mayor Michael Bloomberg said of the officers.
Officer Russell Timoshenko, 23, was shot in the face and neck, and was in "extremely critical condition," said Kelly.
Bloomberg said that while meeting with Timoshenko's parents, he gave them "thanks from a concerned city."
Officer Herman Yan, 26, shot in the chest and left forearm, was in stable condition. "We have every reason to believe that his life was saved by his bulletproof vest," Kelly said.
The incident occurred at 2:30 a.m. in the Crown Heights section when the two officers pulled over a black BMW SUV that had license plates belonging to another car.
Kelly said the uniformed officers approached the SUV and someone inside it started shooting, hitting Timoshenko first. Yan returned fire but was hit too, Kelly said.
Police found the SUV abandoned near the shooting scene. Inside it were two .45-caliber shell casings, Kelly said. The SUV, and the plates from the second vehicle, had been stolen from a Long Island dealership.
Police said Timoshenko, of Staten Island, joined the department in January 2006. Yan, of Brooklyn, joined three years ago.
"The terrible events are proof once again of the unfortunate truth that guns, when they fall into the hands of the wrong people, have tragic consequences," said Bloomberg.
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Comments
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anyone know where in Crown Heights?
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God be with them
. I hope those animals (the shooters) die a very violent death. -
Kingston and Lefferts Blvd
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The BMW was recovered abandoned a few blocks east on Kingston and Lefferts Boulevard. At this point in time, we do not have any perps in custody and we have not recovered any weapons.
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Subject: Prayers needed for 2 of NY'S Finest!
(Prospect Lefferts Gardens-WABC, July 9, 2007) - Two NYPD officers were shot and wounded during a traffic stop early this morning in Brooklyn. The gunmen are still on the loose. Eyewitness News reporter Lisa Colagrossi has been live on the scene all morning.
There was a real sense of urgency at the scene, as you can imagine. Ever since this happened around 2:30 this morning, right at the intersection of Lefferts Avenue and Rogers Avenue.
This all happened when two police officers pulled over an SUV in Prospect Lefferts Gardens, after seeing the plates did not match the vehicle. Shots were fired at them from inside the vehicle as the officers approached.
Officer Herman Yan, 26, was shot in the arm and chest. He was able to shoot back and radio for help, and is now recovering in Kings County Hospital.
His partner, 23-year-old Russell Timoshenko, was hit twice in the face and neck. He now has two bullets lodged in his head.
Mayor Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Kelly held a morning news conference.
"Two partners who set out this midnight to keep us safe were shot were helping deliver the ever low crime rate that makes life as we know it in New York possible. One will recover and one is clinging to life," said Bloomberg.
"Officer Shenko sustained bullet wounds as the mayor said to the face and the neck. He is in extremely critical condition. Officer Yan was hit in the chest and the left forearm. We have every reason to believe that his life was saved by his bulletproof vest....," said Commissioner Kelly.
A black BMW SUV was seen fleeing the scene. Then it was tracked down at Kingston and Lefferts Avenue. Police say the suspects then fled on foot.
There are believed to be two suspects, but police do not have a physical description of them. Police helicopters were scanning the neighborhood looking for the suspects.
Both officers were rushed to Kings County Hospital. Weeping family members could be seen arriving at the hospital this morning. -
Thank god for the vests, and I hope the other one makes it.
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The idiots at the NY POst and the plagiarist cut-and-pasters at Gothamist have already killed officer Timoshenko,
Let's hope he survives ... we all know the odds are heacy against him, but still ...
From the Post:
f* For a brief period of time earlier today, nypost.com incorrectly posted a story saying shot New York City police officer Russell Timoshenko had died. Once the mistake was identified, the story was immediately removed from the site. The Post deeply regrets the error and apologizes for any grief it caused. -
Subject: international news
This actually made it into the Guardian UK where they listed the location as near the Little Red Riding Hood day care center, which seems to be at 237 Lefferts Avenue.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6768483,00.html -
Ilikesausage wrote: God be with them
What would having them die a very violent death accomplish? . I hope those animals (the shooters) die a very violent death. -
This was NOT CROWN HEIGHTS Greg,,, but thanks for keeping things positive
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Ilikesausage wrote: God be with them
I'm guessing Ilikesausage is quite disappointed today. None of the perpetrators of this heinous act died a violent death while the police were bringing them into custody. . I hope those animals (the shooters) die a very violent death.
Perhaps Ilikesausage could Jack Ruby them at their next perp walk. -
LimestoneKid wrote: [quote=Ilikesausage]God be with them
What would having them die a very violent death accomplish? . I hope those animals (the shooters) die a very violent death.
Maybe a public killing of these 3 animals could make the rests of the animals in this city think twice before they act. Fear is very powerful tool. -
joseph11 wrote: [quote=LimestoneKid][quote=Ilikesausage]God be with them
What would having them die a very violent death accomplish? . I hope those animals (the shooters) die a very violent death.
Maybe a public killing of these 3 animals could make the rests of the animals in this city think twice before they act. Fear is very powerful tool.
So what you're saying is that these dopey criminals (or animals as you call them) will start acting like rational human beings out of fear.
The reason they're criminals is because they don't think the consequences through. (i.e. what happens if I get caught?)
Put if you're in favor of public executions why not bring back the public stockade? How about burning the heretics at the stake? That worked well for a while.
Hmmm, how about eliminating poverty? Nah. Let's just kill the animals instead. -
People like these are not just dopey criminals at all. And I wouldn't insult an animal by comparing them to these horrible jerks.
If they knew there might really be consequences then maybe, just maybe, they may take a minute to think their actions through. Or even if one person second thought their actions knowing that severe punishments will be meted out might dissuade them from doing a crime. And I'm not at all saying public executions by any means. But how about sentences that are the real sentences and not having criminals know to have to only do a small portion of their time and get out early.
Aren't there jobs to be had anywhere in the city instead of stealing peoples things that have been earned by working and saving....not stealing or killing. -
LimestoneKid wrote: [quote=joseph11][quote=LimestoneKid][quote=Ilikesausage]God be with them
What would having them die a very violent death accomplish? . I hope those animals (the shooters) die a very violent death.
Maybe a public killing of these 3 animals could make the rests of the animals in this city think twice before they act. Fear is very powerful tool.
So what you're saying is that these dopey criminals (or animals as you call them) will start acting like rational human beings out of fear.
The reason they're criminals is because they don't think the consequences through. (i.e. what happens if I get caught?)
Put if you're in favor of public executions why not bring back the public stock? How about burning the heretics at the stake? That worked well for a well.
Hmmm, how about eliminating poverty? Nah. Let's just kill the animals instead.
A dopey criminal is some one who get a caught pissing in public not a cop killing animal. We will not be able to stop everyone form acting in the worst possible way imaginable, but maybe just on person would be convinced not to steal a car and get into this situation in the first place if they new there was REAL conquences. If killing "these" animals helps save another life I am all for it and hopfully their deaths helps the poverty proble just a little it's just and added bonus. -
dakotas way wrote:
it's not like these guys can possibly have thought the consequences of shooting a couple of cops would NOT be severe. so much for the deterrent power of harsh sentencing.
If they knew there might really be consequences then maybe, just maybe, they may take a minute to think their actions through. -
If killing "these" animals helps save another life I am all for it and hopfully their deaths helps the poverty proble just a little it's just and added bonus.
On the contrary my friend.
Statistics show that the death penalty does NOT have a deterrent on the murder rate. In fact it has the opposite effect.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/
Look, these "animals" as you refer to them need to be locked up for 24 hours a day for the rest of their life. As hard as this may be for you to understand life in prison is actually a cheaper option than the seemingly endless appeals that death-row inmates go through.
Plus it prevents the courts from acting like God and determining who gets to life and who gets to die and it prevents the "people" from looking like hypocrites - i.e. "we value human life so much we're going to take away yours." -
sweet tea wrote: [quote=dakotas way]
it's not like these guys can possibly have thought the consequences of shooting a couple of cops would NOT be severe. so much for the deterrent power of harsh sentencing.
If they knew there might really be consequences then maybe, just maybe, they may take a minute to think their actions through.
for the guys that shot the two cops last week, it's speculated that consequences were why they started shooting. they are all up for mandatory life sentences.
of course, we can all look at the situation and say that mandatory life is STILL better than a possible (now entirely probably) capital crime but whatever.
of course, I still can't figure out why folks with two felony convictions are working at bmw dealerships but hey ... -
Subject: Why?
sweet tea wrote: [quote=dakotas way]
it's not like these guys can possibly have thought the consequences of shooting a couple of cops would NOT be severe. so much for the deterrent power of harsh sentencing.
If they knew there might really be consequences then maybe, just maybe, they may take a minute to think their actions through.
Why is shooting and killing a police officer penalized more severely than is shooting and killing a child or a mother (or any unarmed civilian)?
In war, by way of comparison, it is noncombatants who are more protected by the Geneva Conventions. -
Subject: Re: Why?
sandcastler wrote: [quote=sweet tea][quote=dakotas way]
it's not like these guys can possibly have thought the consequences of shooting a couple of cops would NOT be severe. so much for the deterrent power of harsh sentencing.
If they knew there might really be consequences then maybe, just maybe, they may take a minute to think their actions through.
Why is shooting and killing a police officer penalized more severely than is shooting and killing a child or a mother (or any unarmed civilian)?
In war, by way of comparison, it is noncombatants who are more protected by the Geneva Conventions.
Because criminals have incentive to kill police officers, whereas they might only kill civilians because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In this recent tragedy, for example, the reason these criminals killed and injured the police officers was because they felt cornered and were trying to avoid capture. The officers were killed *because* they were officers. Harsher consequences for killing a cop don't always discourage criminals from doing it, but maybe the harsher sentences make it seem like a less attractive option to the criminal. -
Similar to why you will get more time for beating up a gay because he is gay, over if you were to beat up a gay because you wanted his iPod.
Some behaviors are to be more discouraged than others. -
Subject: Re: Why?
leet wrote: [quote=sandcastler][quote=sweet tea][quote=dakotas way]
it's not like these guys can possibly have thought the consequences of shooting a couple of cops would NOT be severe. so much for the deterrent power of harsh sentencing.
If they knew there might really be consequences then maybe, just maybe, they may take a minute to think their actions through.
Why is shooting and killing a police officer penalized more severely than is shooting and killing a child or a mother (or any unarmed civilian)?
In war, by way of comparison, it is noncombatants who are more protected by the Geneva Conventions.
Because criminals have incentive to kill police officers, whereas they might only kill civilians because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
In this recent tragedy, for example, the reason these criminals killed and injured the police officers was because they felt cornered and were trying to avoid capture. The officers were killed *because* they were officers. Harsher consequences for killing a cop don't always discourage criminals from doing it, but maybe the harsher sentences make it seem like a less attractive option to the criminal.
With regards to "incentive" and "wrong place, wrong time", isn't that also true in war, where there is an incentive to kill the enemy soldier, and the civilian would be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
if "harsher sentences" do "discourage" the killing of police officers, why should civilians not also benefit from that? -
are you suggesting, sandcastler, that police officers are at war with criminals and that criminals are at war with police officers and civilians?
there's a huge difference between policing and warring. remember the disaster on the border when someone decided it'd be a good idea for the marines to help the border patrol? the mind set of a police officer and the mind set of a soldier are, and should be, necessarily different.
to put it another way, it is reasonable for a soldier in a war to expect an enemy soldier to try to kill him. it is not reasonable for a police officer to expect to be killed during a routine traffic stop. -
alafairnadia wrote: are you suggesting, sandcastler, that police officers are at war with criminals and that criminals are at war with police officers and civilians?
also, I'm not actually certain, since I'm not a criminal lawyer in new york, that there are harsher sentences for criminals who kill police officers. the cold blooded murder of anyone in a state that has the death penalty is generally a capital crime if there is evidence to support such an indictment.
there's a huge difference between policing and warring. remember the disaster on the border when someone decided it'd be a good idea for the marines to help the border patrol? the mind set of a police officer and the mind set of a soldier are, and should be, necessarily different.
to put it another way, it is reasonable for a soldier in a war to expect an enemy soldier to try to kill him. it is not reasonable for a police officer to expect to be killed during a routine traffic stop. -
There are also greater penalties for assaulting transit workers in both NJ and NY, FWIW...
-
Subject: i think so maybe
alafairnadia wrote: [quote=alafairnadia]are you suggesting, sandcastler, that police officers are at war with criminals and that criminals are at war with police officers and civilians?
also, I'm not actually certain, since I'm not a criminal lawyer in new york, that there are harsher sentences for criminals who kill police officers. the cold blooded murder of anyone in a state that has the death penalty is generally a capital crime if there is evidence to support such an indictment.
there's a huge difference between policing and warring. remember the disaster on the border when someone decided it'd be a good idea for the marines to help the border patrol? the mind set of a police officer and the mind set of a soldier are, and should be, necessarily different.
to put it another way, it is reasonable for a soldier in a war to expect an enemy soldier to try to kill him. it is not reasonable for a police officer to expect to be killed during a routine traffic stop.
I think so, maybe.
The legislation to establish the death penalty for cop killers, S.319, was approved by the State Senate on May 14, 2007.
Does that make it the law or is there something else? -
Subject: Re: i think so maybe
sandcastler wrote: [quote=alafairnadia][quote=alafairnadia]are you suggesting, sandcastler, that police officers are at war with criminals and that criminals are at war with police officers and civilians?
also, I'm not actually certain, since I'm not a criminal lawyer in new york, that there are harsher sentences for criminals who kill police officers. the cold blooded murder of anyone in a state that has the death penalty is generally a capital crime if there is evidence to support such an indictment.
there's a huge difference between policing and warring. remember the disaster on the border when someone decided it'd be a good idea for the marines to help the border patrol? the mind set of a police officer and the mind set of a soldier are, and should be, necessarily different.
to put it another way, it is reasonable for a soldier in a war to expect an enemy soldier to try to kill him. it is not reasonable for a police officer to expect to be killed during a routine traffic stop.
I think so, maybe.
The legislation to establish the death penalty for cop killers, S.319, was approved by the State Senate on May 14, 2007.
Does that make it the law or is there something else?
yep, that makes it the law.
in any case, that doesn't really change what I was saying. -
LimestoneKid wrote:
Not to mention that if the wrong person is convicted and subsequently evidence comes to light proves their innocence (as happens appallingly often), they can be freed.If killing "these" animals helps save another life I am all for it and hopfully their deaths helps the poverty proble just a little it's just and added bonus.
On the contrary my friend.
Statistics show that the death penalty does NOT have a deterrent on the murder rate. In fact it has the opposite effect.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/
Look, these "animals" as you refer to them need to be locked up for 24 hours a day for the rest of their life. As hard as this may be for you to understand life in prison is actually a cheaper option than the seemingly endless appeals that death-row inmates go through.
Plus it prevents the courts from acting like God and determining who gets to life and who gets to die and it prevents the "people" from looking like hypocrites - i.e. "we value human life so much we're going to take away yours." -
alafairnadia wrote: are you suggesting, sandcastler, that police officers are at war with criminals and that criminals are at war with police officers and civilians?
You ask some good questions, Alafairnadia.
there's a huge difference between policing and warring. remember the disaster on the border when someone decided it'd be a good idea for the marines to help the border patrol? the mind set of a police officer and the mind set of a soldier are, and should be, necessarily different.
to put it another way, it is reasonable for a soldier in a war to expect an enemy soldier to try to kill him. it is not reasonable for a police officer to expect to be killed during a routine traffic stop.
First let me say I do feel bad for the family and loved ones of Officer Timoshenko. I'm sure we all do. The pain of losing someone dear is always hard to bear, and worse when he or she is killed senselessly in the prime of life.
To respond to your questions, the police and the criminals are at odds with each other, and do shoot at each other. But no, I wouldn't say they were at war. The word war is far too strong me. Why? Does that render the whole comparison invalid or something?
The question i was trying to ask was about noncombatants and civilians and the value of their lives.
If killing a police officer is a capital crime, because that punishment is considered more of a disincentive, why isn't the killing of a civilian also a capital crime?
Is expectation of being killed your standard? Who expects to be killed? A child in a classroom does not expect to be killed. If one did expect it, would that in any way make their killing less heinous?
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