Yabbas now a Pet Store + whether you should adopt instead

Did you bother to read the whole thread, Karl? ](*,)

What makes you think I'm anti-purebreed? I own 2 rescues, CLEARLY POSTED ABOVE, that are both pure breeds, a Chihuahua and a Miniature Pinscher.

I still maintain that you obviously DID NOT read the thread, or if you did, there was a gap in comprehension.

AGAIN, there are pure breed rescue organizations for every single breed of dog and cat known to man. Just Google your breed of choice + rescue. Or stop by any one of the pet adoption events or centers in the city or here in BKLYN. My chihuahua came from Earth Angels in the Bronx, who had her at the Union Sq. Petco in the city. She cost me $150. and I thank Zeus every day I have her.

Save hundreds of dollars and get exactly what you want. Easy and ethical.

karl, I plan to personally go in, make sure they are actually selling puppies/cats, and then inform the owner I will not be spending one thin dime in there until they stop selling live animals. If they persist in selling live animals, I will also tell everyone I know about it, and let them decide whether to patronize the place or not. My reasons are amply spelled out above.

So, yes, that should be considered a boycott. You quoted Medusa, but then after that someone did indeed confirm the fact that the animals for sale.

If you'd ever seen a female dog that has been used for breeding purposes, you would be sick, and perhaps understand my vehemence. Pet stores are outlets for those babies. Were you able to follow the link I posted?

Pure bred dogs have been around for centuries, and there are many reputable, clean, ethical and healthy breeders. They do not sell from pet stores.

Subject: Give it a try

I have Read this whole entire post and a lot of the things you are saying are right and half the junk thats on this post are opinions. yes every one is entitled to a opinion and is has the the right to live and chose weather to buy something or not. I belive you should give the store a chance. Yes i know buying puppies sounds unethical but just think about every dogs needs a home.

one thing that i can say for fact is that the dogs in pup slopes are not from puppy mills. BELIEVE ME on this one. Think about if a person buys a dog from a pet shop and finds out that the dog came from a puppy mill how fast do you think that store will be open. Each dog has there own papers and comes from a trusted breeder. go ahead buy a dog and call the breeder.

I believe its a great idea that a new store is opening and sell healthy dogs. I know a lot of people would say " why don't you go to a dog rescue and get a dog " . thats ok to do that but at the same time these dogs will need a homes as well. why not try recommending people to actually go to the store and try it out.

all i have to say is give the store a try, the store has more service to offer if its kills you so bad that they sell puppies . they offer grooming, babysitting, and sell dog and cat food. give the store a try.
anyone open to comment feel free to ask away

where you be at, there is no shortage of animals needing homes. Do pet store puppies get exercise or play time, or adequate socialization with other dogs and people? I cannot support a business that is selling dogs and cats. I don't care what other wonderful services they offer. Have you read this story? Dogs and cats are dying every day and you expect us to embrace a store making a profit by selling them? In my opinion, each dog or cat purchased at a pet store means one less dog or cat is adopted from a shelter.

Animal Care And Control Overwhelmed With Unwanted Cats, Dogs
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=71598

bunnycup, I completely agree. And here we have some of those impulsive customers looking for new homes for the pets they "love so much".

Jack Russell-Pure Breed up for adoption
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/pet/374662057.html

4 Month Old Female Pitt Bull Puppy
http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/pet/374642477.html

Adopt 4 yr old male Akita
http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/pet/374123452.html

Lovable Yellow Lab needs good home with a big yard
http://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/pet/374085452.html

Happy Baby daschund needs a home!
http://newyork.craigslist.org/que/pet/373882629.html

Pure Bred Greyhound up for adoption
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pet/373848088.html

Two Adorable Miniture Schnauzers!!!!!! Need a Home
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pet/371560954.html

where you be at, this is from the HSUS website:

Purebreed registration papers only state the recorded lineage of a dog. Accuracy of the reported lineage cannot be guaranteed. The American Kennel Club (AKC), the most widely recognized purebred dog registry, readily notes that it "is not itself involved in the sale of dogs and cannot therefore guarantee the health and quality of dogs in its registry." Clearly, it is "buyer beware."

http://www.hsus.org/pets/issues_affecting_our_pets/get_the_facts_on_puppy_mills/index.html

Pet stores cater to impulsive buyers and consumers seeking convenient transactions.These stores don't interview prospective buyers to ensure responsible, lifelong homes for the pets they sell, and the stores may be staffed by employees with limited knowledge about pets and pet care.

A "USDA-inspected" breeder does not mean a "good" breeder. Be wary of claims by pet store staff that they sell animals only from breeders who are "USDA-inspected." The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) enforces the federal law called the Animal Welfare Act (AWA), which regulates commercial breeding operations. But the act doesn't require all commercial breeders to be licensed, and the USDA establishes only minimum-care standards in enforcing this law. Breeders are required to provide food, water, and shelter—but not love, socialization, or freedom from confining cages. Many USDA-licensed and inspected puppy mills operate under squalid conditions with known violations of the AWA.

Purebred "papers" do not guarantee the quality of the breeder or the dog. Even the American Kennel Club (AKC) readily admits that it "cannot guarantee the quality or health of dogs in its registry."

http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_adoption_information/buying_a_puppy/

Socialization doesn't have to be done in a dog run or with strange dogs. What about the other puppies for sale? Aren't they able to be with each other or are they kept seperated? Because keeping a puppy completely isolated is really a good thing. :roll:

I wasn't aware that puppies had to be kept away from people too, is every person going into a pet store washing their hands before touching the puppies? Or that they had to wait until 3 months to get "there shots". Silly me, I thought they started at 6-8 weeks. But I'll leave that to shishkab since I'm not the vet tech.

Are you serious with your last question? What didn't you understand about the previous posts? There are too many cats and dogs out there that need homes, they're competing with the pet store puppies and kittens. There aren't enough homes for all the homeless cats and dogs, there is no need to breed even more. Designer breeds like puggles and maltipoos? People are paying hundreds of dollars for mutts when they could save the life of a mutt in a shelter. For every puppy born to a BYB or puppy mill, a dog in a shelter dies. That is seriously wrong.

For someone telling me to do some research you're doing remarkably little of your own. Yet, you seem to be so sure that Pup Slope doesn't get their puppies from puppy mills or BYB's. And that they have "a safe area where dogs from the store can exercise and socialize with other dogs in the store". I think I smell a shill.

its not your fault or my fault that a dumb founded person bought a dog and decided to not to take care of it.

Unfortunately, I think it is our faults because we let a system that we know to be bad, that we know to cause suffering to animals in a lot of ways, continue without a hell of a bigger fight.

"Where you be at", your "analysis" holds no water. Either an economic model of this problem driven by a simple supply and demand argument is over your head, or you're being deliberately dumb about the obvious antecedents and results to serve a rhetorical purpose so that you can appear to believe that pet stores are serving the greater good of dogs by thoughtlessly creating thousands of dogs and then selling them.

I HAVE done my research, by which I mean speaking with and reading about ethical breeders, showers, lawyers looking for reform of the laws that allow this pet store garbage to continue, people who work at animal shelters, dog owners, news articles about pet stores, visiting pet stores (including the one at issue here!), and even tryiong to hear out my fiance's different opinions to see the other side, etc. It is speaking with all those people that led me to the opinions I hold today, which are that NO "ETHICAL" BREEDER (however you want to define that) would ever, ever sell to a pet store. Ethical breeders don't want the dogs they breed to be dumped on unsophisticated buyers running a high risk of neglect, abandonment or improper care. Ethical breeders don't want to profit that way; Ethical Breeders can't create (ethically) enough dogs to match the places pet stores buy them. Pet stores would never cut into margins and pay more for ethically bred dogs.

And I CAN'T agree that if the stupid people want to impulse buy dogs, let 'em - because I do not want any animal to suffer from the stupidity of humans. I am against that WHEREVER I see it - as a longtime horsewoman (show jumping, etc.) I am just as much so with horses, and if this thread was about racetracks I'd have my own arguments there. Please, again, don't engage in the feigned rhetorical device of suggesting that because I think it's okay to own a horse or adopt animals from shelters, that pet stores have to be okay too.

I have two dogs - I think last week alone we spent about $85 dollars over two different pet stores, and have additional large purchases to make in the near future (traveling kennel for the larger of the two dogs). "Pup Slope" will never, ever, ever see a penny of my money if they sell dogs.

Honeymoonx wrote: [quote=apollonia666][quote=Karl the Druid]i've read and followed the topic and watched Honeymoonx change the topic title to: "Yabbas now a Pet Store + why you should adopt instead"

start a new thread or change the title to just "why you should adopt instead" otherwise this topic sounds too much like boycotting a new local business as in:

[quote=VeggieQueen]Yea, that's really bad news. I'm already going to send out a boycott notice to all my friends.

Actually, I'm the one who changed the topic title, and I did so because the topic of adoption had become so much of the thread. I'll go ahead and alter it to WHETHER instead of WHY, okay? And I apologize for my unintentional bias in doing so.

Although, having said that, I worked at a pet store once and it's my understanding that most pet store puppies are indeed puppy mill puppies. There are plenty of other ways to get a purebred dog without buying them from a pet store, as explained several times throughout the thread.

Wow. This is dirty. Changing my topic?? Start a new one. Although I believe that you should adopt, I also believe in the rights of people to choose how they want to live their lives or make their living. There is nothing illegal about selling dogs. But that's not my point.

How can this be allowed to happen? Changing people's original TOPIC for your personal agenda? This will be the last time I’ll ever post.

Moderators and admins for the site (I'm both) change topic titles fairly routinely. It's not "dirty" and I think most users know that it happens sometimes -- honestly, I'm a little surprised Karl, who's been around here a while, jumped to the conclusion that it was you. Some of the times we change thread titles include when the title doesn't fully encompass the discussion within its thread (that's why I did it here), or when it's vague or misleading (which is not the case here -- at least, not now that it says "whether" instead of "why," and I've already apologized for that).

Unfortunately, the posts above are all too true about the puppy mills. Horrible places. And the puppies they produce are not indicative of their breeds in many instances. Have you ever heard of the terrible ways the Amish raise puppies and treat the mothers?? Being "people of God" they should have complete empathy with living creatures, but apparently they are quite brutal with all animals. I have worked with horses forever and was called in to a zoo to evaluate a huge 17 + hand draft horse saved from the meat dealers in Amish country. This gigantic horse was found to have his jaw broken by the past owner. Think how hard you have to hit a horse of any size to break his jaw and what the mindset was to do such a thing. These are the people running a large portion of the mills in the northeast.
The real breeders are very careful to breed out the weaknesses in breeds, and would never allow their pups to go to pet stores...ever.
Such as the German Shepherds from the U.S. that have been so over bred that their hips are so racked by hip dysplaysia at such an early age and the inbreeding has created animals that are not stable and create fearful dogs that don't bite out of aggression, but fear. Our past vet told us she has seen so many of that great breed that has had to be put down in recent years because of the instability of the animals. Some would cower in the cornor and shake violently when coming in for visits and bite anyone (including the owners, who tried to comfort them)
The squirrelly behavior you see in pure breds can many times be attributed to the inbreeding and careless breeding. Or it also can be people who buy the cute puppies with no idea as to their temperment, if a dog like this will fit into their lifestyle, such as high energy large dogs that need to run or have a purpose in life but gets stuck in an apartment all day and the owner can't figure how to make the dog stop chewing the sofa. Or the Jack Russell who is bouncing off the walls because it's cooped up in a crate all day.
People need to research purebreds (and all animals they adopt) to make sure they're ready to commit 15 years to raising this animal. No puppies or kittens should ever be bought in a pet store. And I've often wondered what happens to those babies if no one buys them by the time they're 6 months old and not so puppy looking anymore??? What happens to them?
But on the most important note of all.....take in an animal that already needs a home.
We just adopted our second dog which we found on petfinders.com She's a mutttley 3 year old that is the kindest, sweetest dog you could imagine. She was found wandering the streets of Staten Island and spent two weeks at the pound and was taken by a rescue group the day they were going to put her to sleep. And what a crime that would have been for a wonderful dog. But no one called to claim her and no one could figure out why. That's just one dog.
So many need homes and would do anything for you for life if you adopted them.
To be honest, I think the way this store could be a real asset to the community and be a good neighbor is to NOT sell animals, but run adoption days several days a month for cats and dogs. Then those stopping by to look will notice what this store has to offer in pet care and create a positive service all the way around and get those on this board to come down to buy their supplies. They'll make alot more money this way then selling a few dogs a month.
And someone mentioned finding a cat for a Godmother.Doesn't Caseopele have two cats she's fostering and need adopting??
Don't forget to spay and neuter your animals and it's great that you all care about this subject. =D>

I just received my New York Bar Association Journal for July/August 2007, and it has a several page article on the Animal Welfare Act and its many inadequacies, but meant to educate on the best ways for lawyers to use the AWA. Not necessarily on topic because I don't intend to suggest on any level that AWA enforcement might be the appropriate venue of efficacy against Pup Slope (since I anticipate that despite being unethical to say the least, arrangements like these are permitted under the Act), but on a greater level I have been incredibly psyched to be reading this thread and the many wonderful contributions and then to receive this article on the subject.

UPDATE: Warning, Long Post.

I stopped by Pup Slope this afternoon during my errands to see for myself what animals the store sold, and also speak with the owner. I determined no matter what to approach him/her in a calm, rational manner, even mindful of my tone of voice. At the very least, I expected to have a civilized conversation, and "agree to disagree". I will try to be as factual as possible.

I approached the two people inside, a man and a woman, standing in the back of the store. I asked the man if I could please speak with the owner, he said they weren't there, and walked away. The woman said "I can talk to you". I said I wanted to let them know that a number of local people were concerned about the fact that they were selling puppies, and that the store is losing money, because those people will not shop there as long as puppies are for sale. I told her there was a conversation about it online that they should read. {meaning this one, they were aware of it}.

At this point the man came over and joined the conversation, he was listening to us talk. I got the impression he was the owner, but didn't want to admit it. He said he had already called the police about this thread. Surprised, I asked "why?". He said it was harrassment, and he could do whatever he wanted. He also said "I don't care where they come from", meaning the dogs. I answered that yes he could, but people are free to voice their opinions as well, and shop wherever they wanted also. He said again, he didn't care at all.

I was calm and civil to them the entire time I was in there, but this is when it got ugly. The man then looked at me and said "You look like you couldn't afford a dog anyway, look at you" {I had on paper, denim, cloth jeans, jcrew tee, leather sandals, 22k gold jewelry, wtf?} and went to grab my arm. I had intended to broach the subject of adoption days from local shelters as a possible alternative, but obviously this was getting out of control, and I started moving to the door. I remained calm. The man started verbally abusing me, calling me a "big bitch" and that I dressed badly and looked poor.

He essentially threw me out of the store. I admit just before I left, that I did call him an asshole. Calmly!

I am now certain these dogs come from questionable sources, and the owner is ignorant, and intends to remain so. I sincerely believe him when he says he doesn't care at all about the dogs.

Shop here at your own risk. {edited for spelling}

holy cow! thanks for the update sje, and I'm really sorry you got verbally abused.

and obviously the guy is a freakin' moron - what on earth are the police going to do about a bunch of people on the internet who aren't going to shop somewhere that sells puppies? make us shop there? arrest us for abusing our keyboards? yeesh. what a dipshit.

Good gravy.

Maybe this guy and the guy from Mayday Hardware should go into business together.

Sorry that happened to you, SJE.

I buy my pet supplies at Acme, and have absolutely no reason to do otherwise. They are nice, they are local, they carry a good variety AND they deliver. I'd never buy anything from a store that sells dogs and cats, knowing what we all should already know about puppy mills and pet stores.

Enjoy mutts and rejected show dogs alike, from www.petfinder.com

Acme Pet Food
628 Vanderbilt Ave Brooklyn, NY 11238-3825.
Phone: (718) 789-8062