NPR on BET's Hot Ghetto Mess

i find bet to be a racist station.

Subject: God help me...

Ok people can we please stop with the save the black folks thing. Contrary to popular belief we are not an endangered species. Stop trying to save us like we are beached whales. We don't save you from "You know your a redneck" jokes or all the bad dancing. In fact we sit back and laugh at you (loudly). The fact of the matter is we all have things about us that we find embarrassing, some of it's funny some of it is, well, just embarrassing.
What is offensive is when whites feel that they have to speak for us and tell us what we need to be offended by. We know what's offensive, weve been offended for a long long long time. We have also been offensive for a long long long time (check out black hairstyles of the 80's). The fact of the matter is that your need to save us indicates you feel you are better than us. The fact that you feel the need to speak for us means you think we cannot speak for ourselves.

Now lets call a spade a spade (I know all of you just cringed just now). B.E.T sucks, it's MTV programming with a black face at best (although they put on a pretty good award show). It regularly airs degrading images of women (yes the women are usually black). Yes they air buffoonish images of men (and yes those men are usually black). It's a crappy crappy station but they have the right to air what they choose to air just like you have the right to turn off the t.v. and read Malcolm X.
We can't run around trying to ban everything we disagree with. Free speech is as moronic and offensive as it is enlightening and uplifting. Let the buyer beware.

If any of you have ever looked at the Hot Ghetto Mess website you would see that it's intention was to bring to light the embarrassing and sometimes damaging effects some of our poor choices to serve as a wakeup call to black people to do better. The fact of the matter is that most of these offenders are probably watching B.E.T right now.

So to all my concerned white brethren it would be greatly appreciated if you would take that same kindheartedness that you emote from atop your pedestals and treat us like equals instead of the white man's burden.

[quote="lmboogie"]

Redneck Games, sans protests about stereotyping from anyone on this board or elsewhere,[/quote
gotta tell you.. had it been posted on this board, i would have had made the same remark... disgusting. i just don't see the humor in any of it regardless of the race.

It's about getting off all of our respective high horses and finding humor in the fact that we are all flawed creatures. Who can we laugh at if we can't laugh at ourselves.

When you joke about your wacky family should they be offended and protest your making a joke at their expense?

one last thing joncane. i wonder if your black friends worked in a predominately white environment and found one of those picture sitting on his/her desk in the am.. would they still think it funny?

Also if you look at the sight there are plenty of white moments as well.

So is it the images the show uses or the tone that bothers you?

again, you are assuming because whether or not it had been face to face..i would have gotten just as heated so don't assume the intenet has bolstered my ego... i just have a big ego.

Heated is fine insulting is unnecessary.

So is it the images the show uses or the tone that bothers you?

i don't find the white moments funny mainly because then the argument becomes... why is it funny for white folks but not black folks? the answer is obvious to me but very difficult to argue.

it's all of it and especially the imbalance of it all. as i pointed out these are the only images of black folks we see, that and black men being hauled off to jail. until we live in a country that doesn't consistenly and systematically break down black folks i will not find any of it funny.

SevenOneEighty wrote: Good arguments on both sides here.

BET in general is a "hot mess" and I haven't watched it since the early 1990's. Some people find it entertaining but I have too many choices.
Honestly, I won't be watching the show.

I do think we all need a little "rescuing" every now and then and don't always find it offensive when a white person attempts to be sensitive to certain racial/ social issue regarding black people. We all need to get thicker skin when it comes to these issues. BET can get away with this show because they are BET ("Flava of Love" on VH1 could be considered even worse given the context). To each his own.

This is about money first and entertainment second. They must be making money off of the show so it will stay. The minute that stops the show will be off the air. We live in a crass, dumbed down culture on all sides - it is the American Way. I don't think I'll need to watch this show to know the origin of certain stereotypes though, I have read my history already and I don't think BET was anywhere in it at the time of their origins. Again, to each his/her own.

I just wish we could move beyond these types of oversimplified dialogues (in the media - not here on this board) and get to real accountability and problem solving in our country and abroad. We seem to always stop with "street theater" (Sharpton/ Jackson/ Hannity) when it comes to the real issues.

I pretty much agree with you. When I speak of "rescuing" by white people being offensive it's when it's done either disingenuously or with a sense of pomp. I am neither so callous or ignorant to believe that all white people or all black people are any one thing. I have very good white friends who I know would do anything for me in a heartbeat and I would welcome there help because I know it's genuine and not under the guise of saving me from being black.

I too agree that it would be nice to not have the "oversimplified" conversations about such important topics. The good news however is that they start more complex dialogs like the one we are having now.

lmboogie wrote:

So is it the images the show uses or the tone that bothers you?

i don't find the white moments funny mainly because then the argument becomes... why is it funny for white folks but not black folks? the answer is obvious to me but very difficult to argue.

it's all of it and especially the imbalance of it all. as i pointed out these are the only images of black folks we see, that and black men being hauled off to jail. until we live in a country that doesn't consistenly and systematically break down black folks i will not find any of it funny.

Whether or not any of it is truly funny at the very least it is operating on the idea that if one side has humor then the same must be true for the other. I have come to appreciate the Dave Chapelle's and South Parks of the world that are apt at finding humor in all of us. I'm not equating Ghetto Mess with having the same standard but the mere attempted at equal opportunity satire does level the playing field if only slightly. I'm sure the show itself won't do this and that part is a shame.

I also agree that we are inundated with negative images of blacks in less than exemplary standing. What I'm saying is I think that I believe it is possible that a show can find some humor in our most embarrassing moments and still say it's not acceptable. Whether or not the folks at B.E.T can ride this line remains to be seen.

Despite what is generally displayed in the media blacks at large are quite conservative and quite often are more judgmental about ourselves than whites. (i.e. Bill Cosby). We judge each other sexually, generationaly, economically and religiously more vigorously than most other people. This adds to our sensitivity to things like Ghetto Mess. Ironically in some ways Ghetto Mess (at least the website) displays this in such that these images are not displayed with a sense of pride but rather an underlying shame that upon further inspection fuels most forms of humor and comedy.

Ultimately Boogie I do agree that a balance is needed and believe it or not B.E.T does have glimpses of that balance. Unfortunately it is hidden on the stations boutique station BETJ. On BETJ the showcase good black filmmakers and musicians as well as reasonably intellegent discussion forums. Unfortunately it's buried on a station that most people don't have.

MonkeeJones wrote: Ultimately Boogie I do agree that a balance is needed and believe it or not B.E.T does have glimpses of that balance. Unfortunately it is hidden on the stations boutique station BETJ. On BETJ the showcase good black filmmakers and musicians as well as reasonably intellegent discussion forums. Unfortunately it's buried on a station that most people don't have.

Cosign that. BetJ is a great channel and I can always find something interesting and cool on there. Regular BET, I can't remember the last time I watched...well maybe a bit of the last BET Awards. Jamie Foxx and Girlfriends reruns ad nauseum? No thanks.

[quote="lmboogie"]

Redneck Games, sans protests about stereotyping from anyone on this board or elsewhere,[/quote
gotta tell you.. had it been posted on this board, i would have had made the same remark... disgusting. i just don't see the humor in any of it regardless of the race.

LMB:

It's fine that you don't find that stuff funny. there are plenty of things that pass as humor that i don't appreciate. I don't call for boycotts of them.

lmboogie wrote: joncane: i wonder if you would feel the same way if the "funny stuff" denigrated your mother and portrayed your family as a bunch of ignorant, inbreed "rednecks"

i wonder if you would think it funny if i started joking about boy soldiers in darfar, how about the holocaust? got jokes? i dare you.

finally there is nothing funny about a country that could do better at "ensuring that everyone receives an adequate education and feels that they have an equal chance at the American dream."
had to use your line bigguy.

so i'm not going around boycotting things i don't find funny. i'm boycotting things that are offensive because they are clear indications of where we have gone wrong as a society.

I'm not saying that protests or boycotts are never effective or called for. As i mentioned earlier, when i was a kid, my mom saw me watching the cartoon "kimba", in which the hero was a white lion, and his evil archenemy was a black panther named cassius claw. She immediately called the station that was airing it, as well as the NAACP. The show was off by the next week, and I am proud to be her son. Shows like that infect our society in a subtle and dangerous way IMO.

As for other potentially tasteless humor, yes - as I jew, I laugh at the nazi humor in the Producers, and if Hogan's Heroes was funny, i'd have laughed at that too.

You ask about how i would react to something that denigrates my mother. I guess my point is that HGM.com is more akin to a harmless "yo mama's so fat" joke than denigration. It's over the top, silly, an attempt to be funny. So to answer your question, of course I'd be offended if someone denigrated my mother, but not if they made a silly attempt at humor.

That doesn't mean that nothing offends me, or that i won't go to battle over what i perceive as real bigotry against jews, blacks, women, or anyone else. I am just not offended by the site in question. And i think that if we make a fuss over every little thing that might be tasteless, our protests carry less weight when something that i find more worth making some noise about comes around.

Just to throw in another way of looking at it:

I find the one false assumption in these situations is that AFTER seeing something like HGM that it suddenly creates a negative impression in the viewer. It may encourage someone who already has some screwed up racist views to voice them openly, but its a way of thinking that has been there usually from thier upbringing. That's why lots of people can see the same thing and feel totally different about it.
So who's to blame...a network for showing the program, or adults whose attitudes and behaviors influence the next generation? Yes, it might help if a child doesn't see their parent or other adults watching HGM and making offensive racial comments while they're watching it. However, its likely (but not certain) that whether the show exists or not, that adult is going to pass on to the child thier f*ed up views.
I don't know how the cycle could be ended, but I think we should remember where we learn how to look at the world and other people before thinking that just by taking all offensive content off the air all racial conflict will be rectified.

lmboogie wrote: caahyoko - interesting and for the most part true.
the problem is that if you already have racist views these images are perpetuating the stereotype and you're right where does the cycle end? i personally can not influence what parents teach their kids but i can try to influence how women , people of color and the poor are exploited by the media and corporate greed.

Yeah, money is a whole other issue. But remember, the physical money itself is unbiased and only follows the mindset of people. And, of course, the extreme end of that is greed. Money, TV, and other media--these are just inanimate objects that exist because of and reflect the people that use them.

lmboogie wrote:

That doesn't mean that nothing offends me, or that i won't go to battle over what i perceive as real bigotry against jews, blacks, women, or anyone else

i think this is were we disagree. i perceive those images to be bigoted against women and black people. the people in the images themselves are a byproduct of the many social problems we have in this counry.

i think your mom is brilliant and admire and respect what she did, i wish there were more people like her (i'm serious not being sarcastic) picture this... the first time a women was called a ho on a song. the country went up in arms and boycotted.

I guess you and i just have a different threshold for "humor" like that. As i said, HGM seems more like a "yo mama" joke, or a black comedian joking about folks talking too loud at the movies than bigotry. If i saw these images as bigotry toward women or black people, I would be just as outraged and vocal as you.

Thank you for your kind words about my mom.