Drug Raid on Lincoln and Washington Last Night
Comments
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The majority of the shootings in the 77 pct are drug related. Often drug dealers battle for prime turf. Weed selling is a misdemeanor so the penalties aren't as stiff, and selling drugs on the West end of the precinct is a lot safer then selling on Rochester ave. The clientelle I'd imagine is a lot nicer and it appears that many of the gentrifiers don't know or offer little resitance to the illegal activity. Did you ever think that maybe your friendly neighborhood drug dealer is only nice to you so you don't repeatedly call the Police on him. Just remember criminals don't go for target practice and they usually miss their target.
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King--
Like I said before, I don't really know the situation. I was just going off of my personal experience with neighborhood drug dealers. I recognize that parts of Prospect Height can be pretty tough and rough and shoot-y; if you take a look at my previous post, I was almost attacked by a large child last year (all the while, he was yelling "I'm no thug! I'm no thug!" when I hadn't called him one or considered the idea. Methinks he be a thug, then).
A word to the wise: if you hear gun shots, drop to the floor--shooters rarely shoot down unless they are aiming at you--and crawl away quickly!
Or you can move into my building. No shots ring out over here. -
dinkyla wrote:
ummmm, yeah, i think many members of the black community would disagree that dealin drugs on corners and gamblin in front of buildings is "how the black community works" and should be acceptable as such. there's also a significant difference between hop-scotch and rollin' dice.
And as far as people hanging out in front of your building goes, sprite, you moved here. They were here first. This is the way Brooklyn (and I might add, the Black community in Brooklyn) works. Not everyone has a backyard or a summer house. We have the street. Where do you think this culture of stoop sales came from? The street is where everything happens. It's the community living room.
Now I don't know what race you are, and I don't mean to turn this into a black thing. But it is a culture thing. And it's a culture thing with West Indians, too. You hang out on the street because it's where you see your friends.
I grew up playing on the street -- double-dutch, hop-scotch, walking back and forth from the candy store, and just sitting around. In the summer, it's hot. Who wants to be inside? Who and what can you possibly see inside? -
Try checking out the beginning of my sentence: "as far as people hanging out in front of your building goes [lot of parenthetical stuff in between] the street is where everything happens."
That's not the same as saying that drug dealing is part of the black community. No more so than it's a part of any other community, anyway.
Don't twist my brilliant words to suit your evil purposes. -
dinkyla wrote: ...my brilliant words...
I hope that this was tongue-in-cheek. -
of course, silly bunny.
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dinkyla wrote: Try checking out the beginning of my sentence: "as far as people hanging out in front of your building goes [lot of parenthetical stuff in between] the street is where everything happens."
you're grouping all of those behaviors, from drug dealing/dice to chatting with friends and playing hopscotch, under one umbrella of "hanging out in front of your building" and commenting on it as part of black culture. i'm not twisting anything. no one was complaining about people just sitting in front of a building chatting, jumping rope, or doing anything that isn't illegal. you're the one trying to twist someone's complaint about dice playing/drug dealing into a complaint about black people simply hanging out on the sidewalk, which it wasn't.
That's not the same as saying that drug dealing is part of the black community. No more so than it's a part of any other community, anyway.
Don't twist my brilliant words to suit your evil purposes. -
SummerGirl wrote: Just walked by at 4pm and they were smoking on the side walk.
i like when they smoke on the sidewalk in front of the apt. instead of in the bedroom of the airshaft that connects to my bedroom --- less likely to be hot-boxed in my own apt.!!
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I moved to this neighborhood many years ago because I liked the fact that people were out on the street at all hours. I have always live on St.J's, but not always between the same x-streets. When I lived btwn Wash/Underhill I came home via the Easternparkway stop. I always like that commute better than walking the GAP route because there are people on the street and they know my face and I know theirs. I have never felt threatened by the kids slinging weed on the corner of Lincoln and Washington. They aren't sling rock, so whatever.
A few years ago my spouse was assaulted on Lincoln and Underhill by a homeless man. Who do you think came to his rescue? The kids from the block. They didn't know my husbands name, hadn't ever talked to him before, but knew he was a long time resident, they intervened and my spouse was able to walk away w/his wallet (and some sore ribs). They actually told the would-be mugger that this white guy LIVES here! I am glad they were there. I think if you don't bother them, they won't bother you. They are the eyes and ears of the street and in the end they don't want the 5-0 on their block, so I don't think we have much to fear from them. -
Ah darn. Guess it's time to change my avatar again.
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Not interested in arguing, evan.
If you want to believe that I was putting hopscotch and drug dealing in the same category, more power to you.
That I was mentioning both in the same post is true.
So long as you assume people are saying stupid things when they post, you will always be fighting online.
Why not ASK for clarification, rather than telling me about all the things you assume I would mean if I were an idiot. -
kick rocks!!!! wrote: I moved to this neighborhood many years ago because I liked the fact that people were out on the street at all hours. I have always live on St.J's, but not always between the same x-streets. When I lived btwn Wash/Underhill I came home via the Easternparkway stop. I always like that commute better than walking the GAP route because there are people on the street and they know my face and I know theirs. I have never felt threatened by the kids slinging weed on the corner of Lincoln and Washington. They aren't sling rock, so whatever.
So basically you feel safer with the drug dealers on Lincoln/Washington than without. I am sure there is something I am missing here.
A few years ago my spouse was assaulted on Lincoln and Underhill by a homeless man. Who do you think came to his rescue? The kids from the block. They didn't know my husbands name, hadn't ever talked to him before, but knew he was a long time resident, they intervened and my spouse was able to walk away w/his wallet (and some sore ribs). They actually told the would-be mugger that this white guy LIVES here! I am glad they were there. I think if you don't bother them, they won't bother you. They are the eyes and ears of the street and in the end they don't want the 5-0 on their block, so I don't think we have much to fear from them. -
That story brought a tear to my eye! I wish i had some good ole drug dealers to watch my block. I heard they're the eyes and ears of the community and have no problem Snitchin. Just one thing, as long as they don't sling rock im like totally fine with them. If we could only recruit more of them so they teach our children how to sell drugs too. Oh wouldn't that be great!
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You moved into their neighborhood, not vice versa!
If you didn't walk the neighborhood in the evening as well as day time hours before you signed on the dotted line then it's your own fault that you are living in an area you feel is not safe. Boo-hoo!!!
As to feeling safer w/weed dealers on the corner of L/Wash, have you tried walking home from GAP late at night? It's not well lit and the people hanging on the benches are NOT from the neighborhood. There aren't that many people out there beside the doormen and shifty looking men. People are mugged there all the time. Every weekend you can find at least 1 car that has had their window smashed, even w/doormen across the street. I have been harassed more times on gentrified Plaza Street East than walking home from Eastern Parkway, down Washington Ave!
You honestly feel that these kids are teaching little kids about dealing weed? PLEASE! I think they would rather keep their tricks of the trade to themselves so that all the little kids of the neighborhood don't open their own delivery service, since there seems to be so much demand for weed in the area. Come on, get real! There are worse things your kid can learn on the street if you aren't paying attention. Maybe the dealers on the corner are worth discussing w/your kids?! Maybe it's a good opening to questions such as "why are they there in the first place?"! Is it because there aren't many jobs for them in the neighborhood? Or, maybe because the education system doesn't work equally for ALL people? Or, maybe because there are problems in our society that make it difficult for these kids to get decent jobs that pay more than hanging on the corner and selling?!!! -
dinkyla wrote: And as far as people hanging out in front of your building goes, sprite, you moved here. They were here first. This is the way Brooklyn (and I might add, the Black community in Brooklyn) works. Not everyone has a backyard or a summer house. We have the street. Where do you think this culture of stoop sales came from? The street is where everything happens. It's the community living room.
Actually, dinkyla, I WAS there first. I lived in that apartment building for 8 years, and the kids only started hanging out in front of it a couple of years before I left.
Now I don't know what race you are, and I don't mean to turn this into a black thing. But it is a culture thing. And it's a culture thing with West Indians, too. You hang out on the street because it's where you see your friends.
I grew up playing on the street -- double-dutch, hop-scotch, walking back and forth from the candy store, and just sitting around. In the summer, it's hot. Who wants to be inside? Who and what can you possibly see inside?
Would it make you feel differently if it were a bunch of old Jewish ladies sitting in beach chairs talking shit instead of black kids tossing dice? Same deal. You just feel threatened. That's why everyone hates gentrification.
One other thing: part of what determines the popularity of a particular building is also the width of the sidewalk.
I had seen neighbors of mine hanging out in front of the building now and then - usually on a cell phone or talking with a friend. But I didn't recognize any of these kids. I didn't see them regularly. It's possible one of them lived in the building, but if so, I didn't know which one.
I feel sympathy for teenagers who want to hang out with friends but don't have a good place to go. But if they just wanted to be outdoors on a summer's day, they could have walked two blocks to Prospect Park, or hung out on the sidewalk. There were also other buildings on the street with benches and open areas out front, where these boys could have played their game without blocking someone's front door. So why block ours?
Like I said, I didn't end up having a problem with the kids. They were polite, and they didn't cause trouble. But considering all the above, I don't think it's unreasonable for someone in the building to be concerned. -
Is it because there aren't many jobs for them in the neighborhood? Or, maybe because the education system doesn't work equally for ALL people? Or, maybe because there are problems in our society that make it difficult for these kids to get decent jobs that pay more than hanging on the corner and selling?!!!
If people can move to the US not speaking a word of English and manage to go to college paying full tuition by working 48 hours a week while studying full time, do not tell me that someone from the US cannot make it, I don't buy that. When I moved to this country 14 years ago, I had nothing and did not know anybody, I was just another third world citizen running away from poverty, it was hard but I made it. So lets not talk about how the system is not equal, it all depends on which direction you want to give to your life. -
Lemarseillais wrote:
You're right, but coming to the U.S. knowing damn well that you can make it (and being white) and being told on television that you can make it, without having seen it firsthand are two very different things. According to television, I can also get super rich by investing in Florida property, and that's no longer true on a low income.
If people can move to the US not speaking a word of English and manage to go to college paying full tuition by working 48 hours a week while studying full time, do not tell me that someone from the US cannot make it, I don't buy that. When I moved to this country 14 years ago, I had nothing and did not know anybody, I was just another third world citizen running away from poverty, it was hard but I made it. So lets not talk about how the system is not equal, it all depends on which direction you want to give to your life.
And what about all the people who didn't come here to the U.S. from your third world country? Are you saying that everyone from your home country who didn't end up making it out of poverty is lazy?
Is it hard to accept that you are an exceptional individual with a lot more internal power and resources than most people on the planet? Not everyone is you. It's not fair to expect everyone to be.
It's like being annoyed that not everyone at every University is summa cum laude. You've got something that others don't have.
Instead of complaining about it (which is futile), try marshalling all those inner reserves to help people who don't have the personal power you do. -
you know, i used to think my neighborhood dealers weren't so bad -- they say hello to me, and aside from the occasional proposition, don't bug me much. but then i realized that the other people who hang out on the same corner -- the people who, incidentally, have shown an interest in getting to know me -- don't hang out there when the dealers are out.
i asked one of them about it -- a long term resident, by the way, in his 70s and panamanian, if that matters to your conception of neighborhood authenticity -- and discovered that the dealers, many of whom do not live on the block, make him feel uncomfortable sitting on his stoop. the more i looked, the more i realized that when the dealers are out, no one else is, and when they're not out, there's a vibrant social scene on that corner.
since then it's occurred to me that perhaps what those with the aforementioned "inner reserves" could do to help people -- maybe especially people whose skin color or accents could lead cops etc. to take their concerns less seriously -- is help get rid of the dealers.
so i'm wondering what i can do to help. what is enough to report to the police? -
dinkyla wrote: [quote=Lemarseillais]
You're right, but coming to the U.S. knowing damn well that you can make it (and being white) and being told on television that you can make it, without having seen it firsthand are two very different things. According to television, I can also get super rich by investing in Florida property, and that's no longer true on a low income.
If people can move to the US not speaking a word of English and manage to go to college paying full tuition by working 48 hours a week while studying full time, do not tell me that someone from the US cannot make it, I don't buy that. When I moved to this country 14 years ago, I had nothing and did not know anybody, I was just another third world citizen running away from poverty, it was hard but I made it. So lets not talk about how the system is not equal, it all depends on which direction you want to give to your life.
And what about all the people who didn't come here to the U.S. from your third world country? Are you saying that everyone from your home country who didn't end up making it out of poverty is lazy?
Is it hard to accept that you are an exceptional individual with a lot more internal power and resources than most people on the planet? Not everyone is you. It's not fair to expect everyone to be.
It's like being annoyed that not everyone at every University is summa cum laude. You've got something that others don't have.
Instead of complaining about it (which is futile), try marshalling all those inner reserves to help people who don't have the personal power you do.
By the way I am very far from being white, coming from deep Sub-Saharan Africa...very dark indeed!!!
Back to the subject, I do not understand your rationale to defend drug dealers, first you said they made you feel safe, then you said they were discriminated against which fostered the idea of dealing drugs.
The example I gave about making it in the US is just to demonstrate that regardless of the roadblocks, you don't need to sell drugs to make a leaving (as you suggest). Some people just choose a lifestyle which goes against all social norms and they hide behind very weak excuses in order to validate their shortcomings. This really infuriates me!!!! -
for one, dealers almost never deal on the block they live on. they don't want to bring trouble to their own doorsteps so they go elsewhere to deal generally, so all of this "they lived here first stuff" is generaly garbage
second, yes the system isnt fair and working class people, disproportionately people of color, are at a disadvantage in america. however, making excuses for them or excusing things because of this only does a greater disservice to working class individuals and communities. instead of making excuses you should simply keep this in mind and find ways of working around these obstacles. yes, drugs, violence, and poor educations are symptoms of greater problem, but you can't just ignore the symptoms. you must address them while working more deeply against the root of the problem. -
Sounds like you had a loving, supportive family back home that helped you aquire a good foundation of education in your formative years which gave you confidence and enough self esteem to make it on your own!!!
Unless you have either taught in the NYC school system or have had children in the system or about to enter it, you may not be aware that not all the schools in our system are equal. A huge portion of parents w/elementary and middle school kids in our neighborhood who have the money send their kids to private school, or try their darndest to get their kids into schools outside our zoning. Why do you think that is? Because the schools in our neighborhood are not up to par w/our wealthier neighborhoods. The kids who had to grow up here before people started to agitate for a better deal for their children were stuck because not enough voices were demanding something more. A poor foundation of education in your formative years does not help build self esteem or confidence in your own ability to compete w/the best and the brightest. We all know people like yourself who have worked hard and made it, but I suggest that you may have had some benefits that not everyone has had. -
This whole discussion about this makes me luagh. Gotta love Gentrification. After decades of this neighborhood being a predominately a neighborhood of color primarily composing of African-American and Carribean Americans most of you (white) folks have decided that you were going to move into the neighborhood because you like the pretty brownstone houses that lined up and down the street (thank you Cocoran Group) and the rent was cheap. So you came in and took over and now you're mad and upset because of certain "elements" that are in the neighborhood long before any of you probably moved to New York much less into Brooklyn is hampering your quality of life (thank you Mayor Gulliani). Everybody is so happy that this "element" is gone from off the corner of Lincoln and Washington has anyone bothered to ask this question? Maybe innocent people got swept up in this raid and are being processed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, Oh yeah that's right none of you don't know that because you have never been a victim of racial profiling, sorry my bad. Did you even consider even trying to get to know said individuals on said corner? No cause most of you ASSUMED that if you see more than three black men on the corner next to a bodega that they must be drug dealers (thank you media). Your prejudgements you have on these people makes you think most people of color in the neighborhood to be the worse kind which is why most people of color probably look at YOU with disdain and disgust. Why you may ask? Because YOU disturb their quality of life or have you even thought of that. I've lived in Brooklyn for over 30 years and I have seen the changes in a number of different neighborhoods in brooklyn. There has been some good and there has been some bad when it comes to gentrification. The good is that have been sustainable small businesses that have come in and thrived given some diversity to the area, the bad is that folks like you have moved in and have made the decision that you do not want to associate with any person of color in the neighborhood. Worried that your child becomes a drug dealer by looking at someone on the street? What kind of nonsense is that? If you child grows up to become a drug dealer it's because YOU weren't doing your job as a parent. If you said hello they will say hello. If you worried that they may beg you for money all you have to say is no. It's a neighborhood, they see you everyday just like you see them everyday wouldn't it make more sense to get to know them so that if you were really in trouble they may actually come to your aid at you time of need instead of ignoring them chastising them and when you are in need they are looking the other way. Wouldn't it be better to develop relationships with these individuals instead of cheering in delight when the police comes in and takes them away and oh yeah by the way they may be gone right now but they'll be back and because of these actions it will probably get worse before it gets better. Why? Because until the owners decide that they are going to change from taking subsidy rentals, which is highly unlikely cause it's guaranteed money, they will keep those people in those apartments so it's something that ALL of you have to deal with. I'm not calling this a racial thing even though there are some racial undertones with this discussions this is a economic thing. YOU the haves don't want to have to deal with those the have-nots and I'm sure you're uncomfortable with seeing that, but hey that's life in the city and if you have a problem with that than MOVE SOMEPLACE ELSE!!!!!
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Badda-Bing, Badda-boom!
EXACTLY!!!!
THANK YOU! -
Subject: Re: Drug Raid on Lincoln and Washington Last Night
dreaddj wrote: This whole discussion about this makes me luagh. Gotta love Gentrification. After decades of this neighborhood being a predominately a neighborhood of color primarily composing of African-American and Carribean Americans most of you (white) folks have decided that you were going to move into the neighborhood because you like the pretty brownstone houses that lined up and down the street (thank you Cocoran Group) and the rent was cheap. So you came in and took over and now you're mad and upset because of certain "elements" that are in the neighborhood long before any of you probably moved to New York much less into Brooklyn is hampering your quality of life (thank you Mayor Gulliani). Everybody is so happy that this "element" is gone from off the corner of Lincoln and Washington has anyone bothered to ask this question? Maybe innocent people got swept up in this raid and are being processed because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, Oh yeah that's right none of you don't know that because you have never been a victim of racial profiling, sorry my bad. Did you even consider even trying to get to know said individuals on said corner? No cause most of you ASSUMED that if you see more than three black men on the corner next to a bodega that they must be drug dealers (thank you media). Your prejudgements you have on these people makes you think most people of color in the neighborhood to be the worse kind which is why most people of color probably look at YOU with disdain and disgust. Why you may ask? Because YOU disturb their quality of life or have you even thought of that. I've lived in Brooklyn for over 30 years and I have seen the changes in a number of different neighborhoods in brooklyn. There has been some good and there has been some bad when it comes to gentrification. The good is that have been sustainable small businesses that have come in and thrived given some diversity to the area, the bad is that folks like you have moved in and have made the decision that you do not want to associate with any person of color in the neighborhood. Worried that your child becomes a drug dealer by looking at someone on the street? What kind of nonsense is that? If you child grows up to become a drug dealer it's because YOU weren't doing your job as a parent. If you said hello they will say hello. If you worried that they may beg you for money all you have to say is no. It's a neighborhood, they see you everyday just like you see them everyday wouldn't it make more sense to get to know them so that if you were really in trouble they may actually come to your aid at you time of need instead of ignoring them chastising them and when you are in need they are looking the other way. Wouldn't it be better to develop relationships with these individuals instead of cheering in delight when the police comes in and takes them away and oh yeah by the way they may be gone right now but they'll be back and because of these actions it will probably get worse before it gets better. Why? Because until the owners decide that they are going to change from taking subsidy rentals, which is highly unlikely cause it's guaranteed money, they will keep those people in those apartments so it's something that ALL of you have to deal with. I'm not calling this a racial thing even though there are some racial undertones with this discussions this is a economic thing. YOU the haves don't want to have to deal with those the have-nots and I'm sure you're uncomfortable with seeing that, but hey that's life in the city and if you have a problem with that than MOVE SOMEPLACE ELSE!!!!!
I am not white, I have a HUGE problem with that BUT I am NOT moving anywhere because I can still defend myself and I LOVE Brooklyn which is the only place I have lived in the US.
As for the outlaws, I am free to criticize them because your argumentation really serves those who patronize racism as it is a demonstration of the fact that what is wrong is fine because it is done by certain people living under particular circumstances in a specific neigbourhood. There is no logic to that, so quality of life is only reserved to white folks?????
I work hard, play hard and most important pay my taxes on time, I deserve a certain quality of life, reagardless of my skin color! -
White you may not be, but you still meet the other criteria I was talking about -- you are someone with a lot of personal power, and there are plenty of Africans here in New York who have come before you and will come after you who know how to make it from nothing to something. Sorry for making assumptions.
You had a blueprint.
I have a hard time believing that you absolutely no one when you got here -- no cousins, no aunts, no uncles? If you had nobody, that makes you that much more impressive; it doesn't make your point stronger. It just tells us that you are stronger. Heck, most Americans don't even have the wherewithal to get a passport.
Actually, I never said that being discriminated against was why they sold drugs; that was kick rocks.
I was saying that not everyone knows how to work with the system, and not everyone knows that it is possible to work with the system. Sure, they've been told, but kids are told lots of things that are bullshit. For instance, they've been told that democracy works, and the electoral system proves that wrong all the time.
But back to what I was saying -- do you not think that there is something within you that makes you different from others? You have something that most kids just don't have (like adulthood, for instance). Heck, I'm a school teacher to some of the wealthiest kids in the city, and most of them have trouble trying to do anything that requires any resolve, direction, or discipline on their part, and they have EVERYTHING at their disposal.
Most people have that problem. You don't. Sorry it infuriates you that you are gifted with both ability and self-confidence. I suggest you share it, rather than complain that others don't have it. -
Subject: Re: Drug Raid on Lincoln and Washington Last Night
dreaddj wrote: you (white) folks
Cool, another racist to try and take a reasonable discussion of drug dealing and street crime and reduce it to blacks vs. whites. Again.
You get bonus points for directing your race-baiting statements at a BLACK person, sheesh.
There are a lot of good points and discussion happening in this thread, please don't derail it with this nonsense again. -
daver, I'm not sure you understand the meaning of racism vs. the meaning of discrimination. Racism is a system. Blacks can't be racist against whites until we own the power structure. We can discriminate, which can feel awful, but it's not the same thing.
Though there are problems with this analogy, the way I often is explain it like this --
If a two-year-old child slaps her mother in the face, does that mean she has abused her parent? No. Because the slap can't be that strong, and ultimately mommy has all the power.
Of course, the problem with the analogy is that it equates being black to being a child, and that's where it is silly, but the power part of it stills hold up, I think.
Perhaps dreaddj shouldn't have put it in terms of black vs. white, but his point is still valid. Someone named "crooklyn" is complaining because there are drugs on her block. Doesn't anyone see the irony of this?
Eight years ain't nothin in the history of Brooklyn. Eight years ago is when the gentrification of Prospect Heights was really starting to ramp up. The only folks really qualified to talk about knowing this neighborhood IMHO are people who've bee here for 15 years or more. Yes, even before I got here. I'm as gentrified as the rest of you, with my boarding school and Ivy League self. But I'm not going around complaining about a neighborhood that I moved to because it was cheap. It was cheap because of the very stuff that's annoying everyone about it. -
dinkyla wrote: daver, I'm not sure you understand the meaning of racism vs. the meaning of discrimination. Racism is a system. Blacks can't be racist against whites until we own the power structure. We can discriminate, which can feel awful, but it's not the same thing.
dinkyla, I'm not sure you understand how patronizing it sounds when you start a response with "I'm not sure you understand..." See what I mean?
Maybe there's a better way to word things? Please?
And to dreaddj... it's gotten to the point that my eyes start to glaze over when someone comes charging onto this site, thinking they're going to tell us all what's what, and starts off with the "you people" stuff. This is also very patronizing. And it's simply no way to get others to consider your point of view.
Please take a moment to read the rules, handily linked at the top of EVERY page of the site at the link labeled "THE RULES." Our main rule here is to be nice. We try to maintain a neighborly tone on these boards. Being patronizing and treating others like they're stupid doesn't foster the kind of tone we strive for here.
We just got through a period of really nasty, divisive, race-baiting discussions here on one of the other boards. Please, let's all try to conduct ourselves civilly this time.
Also, a reminder: When someone posts something inflammatory, you do NOT have to take the bait. -
apollonia666 --
You're totally right. I could have worded it a little (A LOT!) more nicely, and if I'd spoken it, it would have probably sounded lot less condescending. But I hope the point I was making is still clear. "Racism" has a pretty specific meaning to some of us, and discrimination ain't it. It's deeper than that.
Here's the question for everyone then -- how does one talk civilly about race? It's hard in this country. This is obviously a race-related issue, but I found it funny that no one mentioned it for a long time. I brought it up because, well, it seemed like something that was being avoided. -
dinkyla wrote: You're totally right. I could have worded it a little (A LOT!) more nicely, and if I'd spoken it, it would have probably sounded lot less condescending. But I hope the point I was making is still clear. "Racism" has a pretty specific meaning to some of us, and discrimination ain't it. It's deeper than that.
The dictionary disagrees with you on your definition of "racism", but it isn't worth pursuing. I don't see this as "obviously a race-related issue", seeing as that people on both sides of the issue are black. Some ways to talk civilly about race are to 1) not inject it into discussions where it is not needed, 2) not make blanket statements such as "you people", and 3) recognize that every color and culture in this country has been discriminated against and will continue to be discriminated against by someone somewhere.
Here's the question for everyone then -- how does one talk civilly about race? It's hard in this country. This is obviously a race-related issue, but I found it funny that no one mentioned it for a long time. I brought it up because, well, it seemed like something that was being avoided.
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