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MERGED TOPIC: Race is almost never relevant (perp or not)? — Brooklynian

MERGED TOPIC: Race is almost never relevant (perp or not)?

lmboogie
lmboogie
edited November -1 in Brooklyn and Beyond
against my better judgement and with the help of lostingreenwoodhts. i'm starting this new thread. so come up people, let's get this party started.

i know what you mean. when i see white males at night, i'm afraid they are serial killers and are going to kidnap me and then eat pieces of my body. if i see a white male during the day... i usually yell for my neighbors to grab their kids cuz i'm afraid he is going to molest them. if i see a group of white kids i'm terrified they are on their way to shoot up the school.
does that in any way sound ignorant to you? just a little bit?
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Comments

  • lostingreenwoodhts
    lostingreenwoodhts
    UPDATE 07.17.07:

    After discussions with the Mods, I am MERGING topics from this global and imboogies "perps" post.

    Onward withthe discussion!


    *******

    From the thread that brought you:

    http://brooklynian.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=381558#381558

    I thought I would be able press enough folks to start this topic, but oh well. Not sure of the Pandora's box I am opening (and had wanted others much more passionate/advocates to), but feel it is a VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC TO DISCUSS :) based upon the above thread and other topics on Brooklynian :!:

    All POV's aside...

    Is "race or ethnicity," in ANY topic on Brooklynian important or not :?: :!: :?:

    I'll let our posters decide...my vote is still out.
  • lostingreenwoodhts
    lostingreenwoodhts
    OK, "encouraged it"

    Thank you lmboogie for going out on a limb here (well, I guess I have as well?).
  • veets
    veets
    I wish I lived in a society where this OP was not funny to me... but it is.
    Our "prejudices" are so well entrenched and do find their level of justification. I wish it were not so!
  • newmovement
    newmovement
    of course its important. this is america
  • daver
    daver
    I think it is insane to call racist on someone whose description of a perp includes skin color. It is a characteristic, and should be reported. I also think that it is insane to think that because a particular perp happens to be black, white, yellow or red to assume that ALL black, whites, yellows or reds are in fact perps. Maybe not so much insane as retarded.

    Where would it end? Lets start with an easy description: a white male, 18-25, 5'6" tall, 210#, blue eyes, wearing blue jeans and a green tshirt. Well, first, obviously, we have to take color out: a male, 18-25, 5'6", 210#, jeans and a tshirt. Identifying sex is obviously sexist, so: a perp, 18-25, 5'6", 210#, wearing jeans and a tshirt[/i]. The combination of height and weight appear to make this perp a bit portly, we obviously can't be implying big people commit crime, so: a perp, 18-25, wearing jeans and a tshirt. The age range shows the perp to be young, implying that young people commit crimes, can't have that: a perp, wearing jeans and a tshirt. The clothes identify the perp as possibly being a lower socioeconomic level, better leave that too: a perp. Ya'll be on the lookout, ya hear? Once you start removing identifying characteristics, there will be nothing left.
  • daver
    daver
    It isn't important, but it is often relevant.
  • god
    god
    There's a deep rooted division between people here. But race doesn't seem to be the driving force. It's the economic split between the "Haves" and the "Have nots" that seems to be the bigest problem.
  • d-miriam
    d-miriam
    of course race and ethnicity are important and relevant. this country was founded on genocide, slavery and racism. there's still plenty of overt, subtle and institutional racism to go around. it seems that some of us think that because we live in an inter-racial neighborhood or in NYC or in a "blue state", we are immune to its snare. I think it's important that posters on this message board continue with threads that deal with these issues. if nothing else, we are bringing misunderstandings out into the open. and people who don't feel heard in the outside world are giving voice to their opinions and frustrations. race matters.
  • queencallipygos
    queencallipygos
    It depends on the topic at hand. But I'd say that in several topics where it comes up, people are making the mistake of thinking that race is the factor, when it's actually economic class that's the factor.
  • jussagirl
    jussagirl
    I live in an all white neighborhood, and when some of the neighbors see a group of African American kids walking down the block to the beach, you can see them get closer to their front door, and round the kids up, so yes, race is a very real issue.
    And the russians vs americans vs hispanic, when you see a hispanic, the first thought is that he works at a fruit market, well dressed russian, the mob, and the american, well ya just have to wonder why they are living ini the area! :cry:
  • the chipster
    the chipster
    let's play the race card. i've got a full deck.
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    daver wrote: I think it is insane to call racist on someone whose description of a perp includes skin color. It is a characteristic, and should be reported. I also think that it is insane to think that because a particular perp happens to be black, white, yellow or red to assume that ALL black, whites, yellows or reds are in fact perps. Maybe not so much insane as retarded.

    Where would it end? Lets start with an easy description: a white male, 18-25, 5'6" tall, 210#, blue eyes, wearing blue jeans and a green tshirt. Well, first, obviously, we have to take color out: a male, 18-25, 5'6", 210#, jeans and a tshirt. Identifying sex is obviously sexist, so: a perp, 18-25, 5'6", 210#, wearing jeans and a tshirt[/i]. The combination of height and weight appear to make this perp a bit portly, we obviously can't be implying big people commit crime, so: a perp, 18-25, wearing jeans and a tshirt. The age range shows the perp to be young, implying that young people commit crimes, can't have that: a perp, wearing jeans and a tshirt. The clothes identify the perp as possibly being a lower socioeconomic level, better leave that too: a perp. Ya'll be on the lookout, ya hear? Once you start removing identifying characteristics, there will be nothing left.
    very well stated :). without those things it would be very hard to tell how they look unlike unless there is a sketch of them.
  • limestonekid
    limestonekid
    queencallipygos wrote: It depends on the topic at hand. But I'd say that in several topics where it comes up, people are making the mistake of thinking that race is the factor, when it's actually economic class that's the factor.
    I tend to agree.

    It's socio-economic not race.
  • daver
    daver
    jussagirl wrote: I live in an all white neighborhood, and when some of the neighbors see a group of African American kids walking down the block to the beach, you can see them get closer to their front door, and round the kids up, so yes, race is a very real issue.
    What kind of kids? I'll hold my kids closer when a rowdy group of teenage boys rolls past, regardless of their race. Your example doesn't necessarily show racism, other than possibly yours.

    I judge people based on my perceptions, and I'm don't give them any more or less latitude for being either black or white. If that makes me look like a racist when I pull my kids closer when passing a group of unknown (to me) young black men, then so be it. I do the same thing for white ones. I live in a black neighborhood, and I don't do it there. Why? Because even though I don't _know_ the kids there, I see them every day, playing, sitting on stoops, doing whatever it is they do. I feel comfortable with them.

    Not everything is about race.
  • rbg
    rbg
    I think race AND class are usually "the issue" in Prospect Heights. Don't get me started with some (not all) wf's in Prospect Heights....Why do some of them look at me like I shouldn't be dressed a certain way or own certain things? I felt it in San Francisco and I feel it here...and it sucks.
  • flailey
    flailey
    SURVEYS SHOW 91% OF THE VIOLENCE IN THE WORLD IS PERPETRATED BY WEALTHY AND ENTITLED WHITE AMERICAN MALES

    EL FLAILEY
    HOLLA AKBAR!
  • jussagirl
    jussagirl
    Daver, these are polite, well behaved kids just walking to the beach,and I have had conversations with the neighbor who wants anyone who does not live there not to be allowed on the street, they have ban parking here already.. I told her that she was being paraniod, and the kids are just passing through to get to the water. I KNEW if I mentioned this someone would mark me as the racist!
    I was just simply stating what some of my neighbors do when someone that is not light skinned walks by.
  • leet
    leet
    RBG wrote: I think race AND class are usually "the issue" in Prospect Heights. Don't get me started with some (not all) wf's in Prospect Heights....Why do some of them look at me like I shouldn't be dressed a certain way or own certain things? I felt it in San Francisco and I feel it here...and it sucks.
    What's a wf?
  • daver
    daver
    White Female, I think.
  • queencallipygos
    queencallipygos
    RBG wrote: I think race AND class are usually "the issue" in Prospect Heights. Don't get me started with some (not all) wf's in Prospect Heights....Why do some of them look at me like I shouldn't be dressed a certain way or own certain things?
    I'd wager that's more a reflection on those individuals. I'm also a white female (I'm assuming that that's what "wf" stands for), and something tells me that they'd look at me with a sneer too, wondering why on earth I don't get some decent highlights for my hair or get some good shoes, for pity's sake...and they'd downright roll their eyes when they heard that I'd rather buy books instead.

    Some people are indeed racist and classist asshats. I just am not convinced that they are the majority in as many neighborhoods as people think they are, though.
  • daver
    daver
    jussagirl wrote: Daver, these are polite, well behaved kids just walking to the beach,and I have had conversations with the neighbor who wants anyone who does not live there not to be allowed on the street, they have ban parking here already.. I told her that she was being paraniod, and the kids are just passing through to get to the water. I KNEW if I mentioned this someone would mark me as the racist!
    I was just simply stating what some of my neighbors do when someone that is not light skinned walks by.
    The point still is that everything isn't always skin deep. I didn't really mean anything about you personally, just twisting a bit to make a point.
  • daver
    daver
    queencallipygos wrote: Some people are indeed racist and classist asshats. I just am not convinced that they are the majority in as many neighborhoods as people think they are, though.
    I would agree with this.
  • jussagirl
    jussagirl
    thankis Daver, point taken, in this case it was all about the skin color, and it is just plain wrong..
  • rbg
    rbg
    wf...white folks....
  • garfunky
    garfunky
    << a perp. Ya'll be on the lookout, ya hear? >>

    :lol:

    alleged perp :wink:
  • lostingreenwoodhts
    lostingreenwoodhts
    Perps or not, "race" discussions merged, stated above.

    Stated again.
  • lmboogie
    lmboogie
    i can't wait to get home so i can give my opinion on this topic and hopefully address most of your comments.

    i'll start with those that think it's socio-economic and not race. if this were true then you would agree that a wealthy black person could buy a house anywhere in the country, right? we know for a fact that this is not true.
    how about a black man hailing a taxi? would appear he can afford it, why isn't anyone stopping for him?

    i know my examples may appear trivial but i find that people make it into a socio-economic issue because it's much easier than facing a historical problem that is not only embarassing but that this country has not taken responsibility for.

    i'm not suggesting we dont' have socio-economic problems, of course we do..... but that is not the root of the problem.

    d-miriam-where have you been? i couldn't agree with you more so please continue engaging in this thread.

    more to come later.....
  • armchair_warrior
    armchair_warrior
    is it racist when black taxi drivers don't pick up black passengers?
  • boogieknight
    boogieknight
    What I’ve noticed in these boards is sometimes it’s about race and sometimes it’s about class. The two often and very quickly and messily get all jumbled up. So you can start talking about one and end on the other. There also some people on the boards that make it all about one thing (race or class) despite all arguments / protestations / evidence that it is indeed about the other.

    I tried to flow out that dynamic, as it pertains to racism/classism in PH/CH and its perception on this board:

    1. Until fairly recently PH/CH have been (or in CH's case continue to be) traditionally Black/Hispanic/non-white nabes. Plainly put most of the longtime residents are non-white. Let’s call them Old Folks. So, most Old Folks are non-white.

    Every nabe has Assholes. So most assholes in PH/CH would then be Old Folks. So most Old Folks Assholes are non-white.

    New Folk start coming in.

    Common assumption #1 is that they're better off economically and socially than the Old Folks.

    Common assumption #2 is that most of the New Folk are white.

    Forums are set up and human nature being what it is, people bitch about what bothers them. People bitch about Assholes.

    When New Folk bitch about Assholes – due to nabe’s population – they’re likely to be speaking about Old Folks. That starts the problem, because now:

    Bitching about Assholes may mean, that you’re a racist White, wealthy, uptight, no fun having, wanting a Starbuck on every corner, want every non-white Old Folk sent run the hell out of the nabe, close-minded jerk.

    Or it may mean that you’re speaking common sense.

    Insisting that Old Folk are not all Assholes may mean that you’re a defeatist, low-expectation having, racist, poor, tolerating drug dealing and mugging jerk.

    Or it may mean that you’re speaking common sense.

    Trying to define what exactly is Asshole behavior – Littering, Inconsiderate behavior, Drug dealing, Harassment, Theft, Violence, etc. and you’re opening a new can of worms ( drug dealers are all peace-abiding friends of mine / they’re dangerous scum; I’m just hanging out with my friends, partying / Shut Up! My baby’s trying to sleep!).


    Throw in the fact that some New Folk probably are racist/classist and would like to see the Old Folk run off and that some Old Folk are apologists /proponents for the worst aspects of urban life, and it gets complicated.
  • lmboogie
    lmboogie
    this board is going to get me fired and then i'll be poor and brown skin.
    is it racist when black taxi drivers don't pick up black passengers?
    yes. what's your point? that it's ok to be racist if it's black people are doing it?
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