MERGED TOPIC: Race is almost never relevant (perp or not)?

I can't believe people are still arguing over this crap. You should be exploring the stars, not fighting over your pigments.

I should have made everyone Blue skinned. That would have been much better.

Hope the dolphins inherit the earth.

BoogieKnight wrote: oh and I would absolutely include the "perps" race if I knew it.

If I saw a Black guy mug someone?...I'm gonna say the mugger was a black guy, or Chinese or whatever he was, don't matter.

I'm not sure I would be able to accurately guess someone's race. If I get mugged by an Arab, I might accidentally tell the cops I was mugged by an Indian.

I was attacked by white looking men. These thugs were never caught, so maybe we should all cross the streets when we see white guys walking down them.

Sometimes I wonder if pale skinned people commit crimes thinking that they can get away with it because they think cops focus on darker skinned people.

I'd like to know what the local gypsies think about all this. Are they considered white or black?

lmboogie,

I can't say one way or the other if you're losing your mind ;-) , but there's really no way a reaction to Lynch's "subhumans" comment (or your friend's use of the word "animals" to describe them) could be construed as 'overly sensitive'.

daver wrote: And as a white male trying to get some scholarship money to go to college years ago, which never ended up happening, I will say that I felt a bit _way_ less than privileged. Berkley had me digging up my family tree to see if I could produce an 1/8 of _some_ minority. All minorities are legally protected these days, women, gays, racial minorities, but you can still do what you like to white males.

Actually, men of all colors may have an advantage in college admissions these days, particularly in liberal arts colleges. Schools are struggling to recruit enough men, so they accept men with lower test scores than some female applicants in an effort to keep the gender balance closer to 50/50.

See: http://chronicle.com/weekly/v53/i46/46b01601.htm
(requires paid registration. here's a snip -)

"POINT OF VIEW
The Latest Way to Discriminate Against Women

By RICHARD WHITMIRE

There's something all-American about filing lawsuits. McDonald's coffee burn your lap? Dry cleaner lose your favorite pants? Sue! And somehow we find it perfectly logical that social policy should be guided by lawsuits. Upset by the University of Michigan's handing out admissions preferences to black students? Find a willing complainant and sue. Hey, quite often it works.

Why then does one of the biggest, sweetest lawsuits imaginable — colleges routinely discriminating against women in their admissions policies — go unfiled? Recently U.S. News & World Report laid bare the evidence. In desperate attempts to keep their campuses from swinging hugely female, as far more women than men apply to college these days, straight-A girls are told to look elsewhere, while B-average boys get the fat envelope."

snip

queencallipygos wrote: [quote=lmboogie]queencallipygos: i hear what you're saying regarding confusing economic class with race. my point is this...it may be confusing because of the obvious economic inequality between whites and blacks or people of color in this country. the inequality stems from deep rooted institutional racism towards black folks so it's difficult not to associate the two because they obviosuly go hand in hand.

No, I understand that. But to generalize the situation and make it about race overlooks the fact that there are well-off black people who may also be lamenting the lack of Fresh Direct, and that there are poor white people in the neighborhood who may be just as pissed about the gentrification and could care LESS about Zipcar. (Disclaimer: I am one of the latter, and at times on the boards I get lumped in with the "gentrifying whiners" simply by virtue of my skin color.) I realize that it's a Pollyanna attitude to think that everyone just needs to look at class, and realize that it cuts across racial lines, but -- class does cut across racial lines, and many of the complaints I hear in her deal with certain CLASSES as opposed to certain races.

there are clear-cut instances of racism, yes. There are also subtle instances of racism. But there are also instances where one person may perceive racism where another person may be simply thinking -- well, let's scroll up for a past example -- "God, I hate yappy little dogs like that." Or one person may perceive racism, when it's actually sexism. Or one person may perceive racism when it's classism. Or ageism. Or -- hell, someone could just have a bug up their butt the size of an emu about the whole of mankind on general principle.

Is it easy to tell the difference? God, no. We're all complex creatures, and some of us are a mystery even to ourselves, let alone being able to understand what fully motivates another person. But is it important to try? I think so.It's hard to have this discussion on this board, because it is not a true representation of the community. In most "old timers views" any one who is white IS considered a gentrifier with more money than them. Most don't move here to interact with the commuity. They do because they cant afford other predom white neighborhoods. It's just a fact. White people never wanted to live in these hoods in the first place. Gentrification is pretty new to most hoods east of flatbush. You go from never seeing white people, to all of a sudden having them as neighbors? I have this conversation with the kids in the hood frequently and most on this board are living in a huge bubble. When the tide turns and things really get rough in these hoods, the petty bullshit that people gripe about on this board will look like childsplay.

Well, to get back to a comment I made earlier that race matters.

Case in point: it seems that more white people than black on this board see the world in terms of class divisions. And that more black people than white view the world in terms of race. Doesn't this speak to the fact that one's perspective depends on the skin you are living in? I think it makes sense that white people attribute class to the struggles they face because they are well, white. They don't walk the street everyday as a person of color. They don't inhabit a body that is noticed or judged or whatever because it is brown -- and being brown has many historical and cultural connotations in our lovely land. I think that unless you experience and live that reality everyday, it's hard to understand how race informs a lot of a person's perceptions and inner core - and that a lot of interactions are indeed about race whether white people know it or not. (I hope this is making sense...)

And for the record, I'm a Jewish white woman, but I've sometimes been mistaken for a Latina or Arab which might explain why I sort of get it - although of course, I can't ever really get it.

"White people never wanted to live in these hoods in the first place."

Ahhh, ever hear of the "white flight" from most of Bklyn to the suburbs in the 1950's-60's?

Just not true. While there have always been bastions of mixed 'nabes, most of the "tony" areas being redeveloped (and in many cases, over developed) we're middle to upper class Irish & Italian...and perhaps even English and Dutch before then... :-k

ADDED: in fact I live in a 'nabe that used to be almost 100% Polish and Italian who either worked on the water front or as city workers (mainly Cops and sanitation).

They are being replaced mostly by recent immigrants, or unfortunately condo owners from tear downs of the older housing stock (displacing some of those "new" residents. But don't get me started on that topic. But, this has always been a working class 'nabe. Part of the reason we moved, bought and rehabed (ing) our home in the first place.

daver wrote: Berkley had me digging up my family tree to see if I could produce an 1/8 of _some_ minority.

I'm sorry you didn't have more guidance from your school or family at that time. The majority of scholarships/grants/awards are not racial/gender specific.

I don't know if you meant University of California, Berkeley or Berklee College of Music or some other institution. However, limiting scholarship choices to only what the institution offers is something too many people do. There are loads of packages that focus on parents' jobs, monetary need, religion, essays, region, or love of Coca-Cola and McDonald's. As I said, the failing was a lack of awareness on your GC's or college advisor's part.

Also, not everyone gets free money for education. Some of us got to work in the salad bar.

Boo_Hoo wrote: When the tide turns and things really get rough in these hoods, the petty bullshit that people gripe about on this board will look like childsplay.

This is clearly a revenge fantasy. Emphasis on fantasy.

That's a nifty map. It takes looking at it with each %(group) to really understand the situation, however. Flipping on the %White and looking from the 50's to 60's to 70's doesn't look as dramatic as the %Black in those same years. Population numbers as well as percentages would be a great addition. It looks like basically a lot more people of some races were moving IN than other races were moving OUT.

Anyone who has looked at all sides of the "White Flight" issue knows there's more to it than race. And yes, part of it (a big part, I think) involves economics. I'd love to have a yard for my kid to run around in. The only yard I've had in my 13 years here was overgrown and filled with glass and bottle caps and baggies. What a generous landlord! And guess what? If I could afford a place with a yard (or even a balcony), it would more likely be outside of our fair City than inside.

Race is a huge issue, obviously, and it's the one that gets the most attention because it outrages most of us, as it should, when something is scrawled on a home or an attack is clearly based on someone's ethnicity or race. Economic issues seem to just depress the general populace, not enrage. The money machine is too big to fight, perhaps?

I think the bottom line about the neighborhood situation is that NYC has long been a renting town (mostly), and so it has always been a transient town. People make this their first stop for jobs out of school, their first stop from another country, their first stop from a small town, their first stop by birth...and some stay, and some don't. It's the people who live here their whole lives and stay and get invested in their neighborhoods (sadly fewer renters have incentive than owners) who make a difference.

I guess I'm off-topic slightly, but I think it's all connected. Okay, done.

armchair_warrior wrote: neat map. the white population shrink.

And re-growth...

With a last name like Komisarjevky, doesn't it kind of go without saying that he's white?