Fort Greene Shooting/Killing: Ingersoll Housing Project

limestonekid · July 2007

Just thought I'd give this particular shooting it's own thread.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/23/nyregion/23mbrfs-fight.html

Doesn't seem like anyone is all that concerned about the shooting and killing of a young Fort Greene resident that took place in the Ingersoll Housing Project over on Navy Walk very early on Sunday morning.

Just an observation.

MOD NOTE: I'm editing the title to add the location because there's three of these shooting threads running right now . . . oy

anonymous · July 2007

Subject: shooting

par for the course given the element that lives in those damn projects. they need to be ripped down!

limestonekid · July 2007

Subject: Re: shooting

the man wrote: par for the course given the element that lives in those damn projects. they need to be ripped down!

the element?

if you really are "the man" then you can do a much better job of explaining that one.

boygabriel · July 2007

Responding to confrontational guests is bad for your health.

I don't really know what to say about the killing in the projects. Things are bad in there.

limestonekid · July 2007

Boygabriel wrote: Responding to confrontational guests is bad for your health.

I don't really know what to say about the killing in the projects. Things are bad in there.

I just find it funny that whenever there is a shooting (whether it leads to a death or not) in one of the area's that is under gentrification there is a great hullabaloo on the message boards.

However when there is a shooting, and in this instance a death, in one of the public housing projects no one really gives a crap. Out of sight, out of mind.

Perhaps if people were more concerned about the reasons why violence is such an acceptable alternative in some parts of our society and doing some things to help alleviate the reasons why violence is so acceptable then we wouldn't have to deal with so many people posting variations of "Is this area safe?".

Just my 2 cents worth.

boygabriel · July 2007

No doubt.

But what can I, as a white gentrifier in Clinton Hill, do about violence in the Whitman Houses, or other area projects, you know?

I think violence in any community is terrible, whether its the projects, or Clinton Hill, or Brooklyn, or New York City. I am a liberal voter, I support community initiatives and funding and stuff like that. But at the same time, the violence in the poorest neighborhoods isn't truly going to end until the community in question is able to over come it.

I don't mean to come off sounding like a crass libertarian when it comes to government services and community issues. I just think there are two huge factors that will go into reducing violence, and they must work in tandem. One factor is the community and society at large, and the other factor is the actual individuals who live in these housing projects and know these elements, or know 'of' them, and can help build a true grassroots solution to the problem.

anonymous · July 2007

Can we combine the shooting/robbing/killing posts?

queencallipygos · July 2007

Subject: Re: Fort Greene Shooting/Killing

LimestoneKid wrote: Doesn't seem like anyone is all that concerned about the shooting and killing of a young Fort Greene resident that took place in the Ingersoll Housing Project over on Navy Walk very early on Sunday morning.

Just an observation.

Well, I personally hadn't said anything about it up to this point because this very moment is the first I was aware of it...it may not be unconcern, it may be simple unawareness.

anonymous · July 2007

Subject: my thoughts

as a clinton hill gentrifyer also, all i have to say is keep the animalistic behavior confined to the projects!!!!!!!!!

putnam-denizen · July 2007

Anonymous wrote: as a clinton hill gentrifyer also, all i have to say is keep the animalistic behavior confined to the projects!!!!!!!!!

Pardon? Perhaps when you are ready to become part of the community rather than some bizarre dehumanizing occupation force, you might be worthy of civilized discourse.

To address the initial question, i would say I didn't know about it. of course my corner of Clinton Hill is quite far from where the death happened (altho unfortunaely has had its share of needless deaths in the past year). Anyone who has lived in Phildaelphia, New Haven, Boston or DC would of course recognize how much better NYCHA housing is than public housing in those areas. That said there are certainly challenges to diversing the work situaiton of those living there while maintaining much needed low income housing. In my neighborhood the large privaely owned apartment buildings on Putna between Grand and Irving have remained a bastion of (a) affordable housing thru renta stabilization and (b) a source for the drug dealing in the surrounding blocks. How to destroy b without eliminating a?

escap · July 2007

How about better/more security? I mean, it seems like we like to rack out minds searching for deep-seated sociological causes and cures, complex economic or policy maneuvers, and especially we love to beat ourselves up about how selfish and uncaring we are, but God forbid we just turn to an obvious solution.

The only real solution to reducing crime in housing projects (other than tearing them down, which of course is the best solution) is to dramatically increase the police force in and around them. Furthermore, the police need to be empowered to actually fight crime, and local rules/laws need to be changed to alter the culture of crime and self-destruction that is so pervasive in projects.

Furthermore, police need to be trained specifically to deal in these areas, and above all, politicians and police leaders overseeing the plan need to be progressive in their approach. They need to reach out to community leaders and try to convince the law-abiding citizens that the goal is not an oppressive police-state, but rather the opposite: liberation from the oppressive criminal-state that the projects often are. Regular citizens should not be siding with drug dealers over cops, and the cops need to ensure that they are properly trained, educated and integrated into the areas they police. But they shouldn't be shackled--the law should favor the rights of innocent civilians over thugs.

Digging deeper for more lasting measures, the elimination of the concept of housing projects would help enormously. As T. Friedman loves to say, "No one ever washes a rented car". Work towards ownership of the property by individuals; after all, isn't this system, in which poor folk live in government housing but have no real freedom to escape, own property, or move above their station, just a northeastern version of slavery? Only this time the "master" is the government. I don't mean to be hyperbolic, but over half of black males in NY don't have jobs, and a similar number of black males within housing projects are involved in the penal system. A bit of alarm is called for. The housing project experiment has been an unmitigated disaster; time to scrap it and try something radically different.

queencallipygos · July 2007

Boygabriel wrote: But what can I, as a white gentrifier in Clinton Hill, do about violence in the Whitman Houses, or other area projects, you know?

Not to call you out, but something about the way you phrased this struck me; you refer to yourself as "a white gentrifier." I'm wondering why?

Personally, I don't consider myself to be a "gentrifier." I'm just someone who moved here. Just like you were. Just like everyone who lives here was (well, unless they actually happened to be born here; and even then, someone in their family at one point was just someone who moved here). Perhaps part of the solution would be for us all to stop classifying ourselves and each other into various groups, and acknowledge that it's all one community?

And yes, I do realize this feels like I'm about two minutes away from suggesting we all join hands and sing "Kumbaya." :oops:

anonymous · July 2007

Has anyone ever thought of the word "community"
comÂ·muÂ·niÂ·ty [kuh-myoo-ni-tee]
1.a social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage.
2.a locality inhabited by such a group.

we ALL deal with indivduals that are good & bad. YOU decided to move here so take responsability for that and deal with it! don't hand everything off to Law enforcement officers to build your community for you...is that where you really put your trust? Let's look for someone to blame why don't we it's the Black men, it's the poor, it's the slave master, give me a break! You want a better community than MAKE one. accept the good with the bad and do BETTER! Whites and Blacks have caused numbers of murders! so who would you like to blame now? you want complete safety then go to Alaska, I'm sure there are criminals looking for safety there too!!! no man is an island.

eberri · July 2007

well said, cplives...

Adding more of a police presence in the projects does not sound like money well spent to me, not sure of which group I'm more fearful of, honestly. The disenfranchised with little opportunity or the overly authoritative with guns, who when they do shoot someone "by mistake" never seem to be properly tried...

The fact is the projects are a part of our community and predate most people living here now. It seems most would like to see the people there just disappear. As a community, be it a village, city, state or global, we are only a strong as our weakest link.

Anyone think about why life in the projects is so hard? Because it is hopeless and there are no opportunities. Instead of making life there a police state, develop after school programs to keep kids off the streets and other alternatives to the elements that lead to a life of crime.

I didn't grow up in the projects, but had friends and family who did and for every 10 people you see hanging out, getting into trouble, dealing drugs and harassing other people, there are at least ten times as many there because it is the only thing saving them from being homeless. Some of them are working multiple jobs, scrapping and doing everything they can to just survive there and maybe, one day move out.

Those are the people who are trapped in their apartments and go unseen by any of us. They need to be the ones we focus our attention to, because despite their current status, they want what we want, a decent place to live and a chance at a good life. Stop focusing on the 5% who make everyone else look bad.

But CH/FG is not about a total inclusive community initiative, is it? It seems to be about the haves CHOOSING to be too close in proximity to the have nots and then not wanting to embrace the community they moved to, but recreate their own and move those not a part of their vision, elsewhereâ€¦

Fort Greene Shooting/Killing: Ingersoll Housing Project

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