Republicans Trying to Eliminate Minority Businesses

Subject: Re: Republicans Trying to Eliminate Minority Businesses

annoyed wrote: Last Saturday night at midnight the Dark Side made an attack on the minority and women owned businesses of the United States.

I'm really surprised that you of all people would put it in those terms.

The point is white privilege still exists, and white male privilege dominates the world we live in today, its no coincidence that the distribution of power and wealth has been (and continues to be) dealt that way. Its not like that privilege wasn't gained by the means of violent inhumane treatment of others. Be thankful that affirmative action is all we are seeking and not a complete reversal of roles or revolution to avenge all of our people that were raped, killed, enslaved and tortured as part of what was once just part of Americas way of life.

This country was built on the backs of slaves who received nothing for their efforts. As their descendants Blacks today are entitled to and owed reparations, an apology and whatever attempts at leveling the playing field of the 400 year advantage that many enjoyed at our expense. Trust, I for one am not looking for a hand out, but will take an opportunity given to me in honor of my ancestors who didn't have any such options or choices about the basic decisions in their lives.

White people need to own their privilege, whether you choose to accept it or not, it is your history, present and future and a major part of why your position in the world is what it is today....

Until blacks begin to graduate from college in meaningful percentages and pass on the knowledge that education is the key, a lot of problems will remain.

However, it's clear that posters identifying themselves as black claim the fault for black underachievement lies outside the black community.

Of course this claim is ridiculous. If there were anything to it, then we'd find prosperous black nations in Africa. Sadly, life is so bad for most blacks in Africa that the descendants of those brought here as slaves should thank their lucky stars they were born here instead of Africa.

annoyed wrote: Until the playing field is leveled i.e. reparations or something to help us catch up with your 400 year head start and the privilege you get soley based on your skin color, we need whatever little crumbs they throw us.

Bullshit!

lilbangladesh wrote: The problem is, as things stand today, if all of a sudden, all affirmative action programs were to cease and desist, then only (or almost only) businesses run by white males would profit and women and minorities would suffer. Discrimination still exists and minority and women would be passed over for "lack of experience" among other things.

Bullshit. White males, who aren't business owners, are probably the most discrimanated group of people in this country.

eberri wrote: The harmful aspect of affirmative action is the *perception* that the beneficiaries only got there because of affirmative action and that they did not receive what they have through merit. But this isn't reality. Sure, affirmative action may help that black kid get into Harvard, but he's not going to get into Harvard without having damn good grades and test scores.

Why not just base entry on test scores not race? Or do you think that Harvard and many other universities base entry on race first then test scores?

eberri wrote: Until we become a truly color- (and gender-) blind society, there will be a need for affirmative action, if only for the chance to get a toe in the door.

Bullshit. You know, when a person applies for a job, there is usually a questionaire that asks for their race and gender. Why is this needed? If an employer was going to base their selection for a job on merit and not race, then these questions are irrelevant.

And , when a person applies for a business loan, why should it matter what their race or gender is? You know there used to be a button on the Small Business Association website that read, "If you are a minority or a woman CLICK HERE!"

Now I'd say that is totally wrong.

And when is White History Month? And could you imagine a network called WET, like BET? That would never be allowed to happen! If it did, there would be such an outrage from every black leader in this country.

lilbangladesh wrote: The reason why things are so bad in Africa has MORE to do with the legacy of colonialism than the innate intelligence and energies of Africans.

Please. Always excuses. Israel has risen from the desert and into prosperity in 60 years despite several wars waged against it and years of terrorist attacks.

Meanwhile, African nations have sunk into despair and economic collapse despite extreme natural resource wealth.

Anyway, your excuse means there is no hope for most Africans and the African continent. Why? Because the "legacy" of colonialism will never pass as long as Africans and others believe it explains the problems. It is a self-perpetuating belief.

Based on your view, the only hope for Africa is to repopulate the continent with people who have no connection to colonialism. But wait. That's virtually every person living in Africa today. Only a small percentage of today's Africans lived under governments based in Europe. Since the Europeans left, every sub-Saharan nation has fallen under the control of one black thug after another.

Zimbabwe is going down the toilet after enjoying relative prosperity when the nation's white farmers were growing the country's chief exports. Now, under Mugabe, the country is a mess. The story is much worse in countries like Kenya.

homeowner wrote: Because if the sole determinant was test scores, white folks wouldn't be getting into these schools either...

GOOD!

Still doesn't mean that race should be a determinant!

lilbangladesh wrote: Your knowledge of history is abysmal.

Israel and Africa are COMPLETELY different. Israel was created by highly educated immigrants who had the resources to do what they did.

Africa has been raped and pillaged for centuries, and is STILL being raped and pillaged by neoliberal economic policies and corrupt governments. You didn't even read my link, did you. Because you might actually LEARN something, God forbid.

And let me tell you something. It is close to impossible to get into college, let alone get a Ph.D, if you come from a school system with no books. How is a talented child supposed to overcome that? This isn't the past. This is NOW. Poor urban schools are severely underfunded, and to say that it's because blacks are inherently inferior is just out and out racist.

Achievement takes resources, resources that both Africa and poor urban youth have been denied and are still being denied. Affirmative action was meant to address that inequality. Maybe the way it's being done is being done badly. That's something we could have a productive debate about.

lilbang, you are right, Israel and Africa are different. Israel shows that worthless land in the middle of nowhere is all you need for a basis to create a vibrant country IF some capable people work to make it happen.

Africa proves that it's possible for destructive idiots to repeatedly seize power in resource-rich nations and drive them into the ground, leaving the citizens impoverished, hungry and uneducated.

This demonstration makes it painfully clear that blacks are incompetent at building nations. Totally incompetent. You don't seem to understand that many African nations were given the gift of extraordinary natural resources. There's enough stuff in the ground to finance the development of leading civilizations in Africa. But there's one problem. No one in Africa knows how to do it.

Meanwhile, you seem to be a racist. That is, a person who believes blacks are permanently stuck to the bottom of the barrel.

NY City spends an average of $15,000 a year educating each student. Nothing stops a kid from learning except the kid. Bad influences outside of school may turn him away from studying. But in the US, the school door is always open. Hence, when a kid wakes up and realizes he might get where he wants to go if he learns something, he can return to school. At any age.

Long story short. Blacks don't. The problems of black underachievement are clearly tied to black culture.

Meanwhile, I did skim Doris Lessings rant. So what? She made a point that I think she did not intend. She casually noted that all the serious problems began after "independence." In other words, once blacks were running the countries of Africa, things went down hill for the people.

India was part of the British Empire for a century. The chief reason India is enjoying growing prosperity today is due to the continuing benefits of the British education system that was introduced in the 19th century. It's possible to get an superb education in India. There is no such opportunity in Africa. The continent is an educational wasteland.

Anyway, the chief problem for blacks is the rejection of education by black culture. Say what you want, but getting a degree in black history is not an act of getting an education.

I watched a PBS special on Malcolm X last night. I always thought he was an ignorant, self-righteous and arrogant fool, despite his claims of self-improvement and autodidacticism. The documentary reminded me why I came to this belief. And at the end, he faced the real enemy -- other blacks. Nothing has changed.