I'm so disappointed in Michael Vick
Subject: I'm so disappointed in Michael Vick
I love watching Michael Vick play football. Here is a man who had everything and he had more talent in his pinky than I could ever have. He was simply amazing to watch. He may end up losing his financial and professional life over the dog fighting scandal.I'm trying hard to hold off judgment on him because there has been no trial yet and we are all innocent until proven guilty. If he (or his cronies) is involved at all he deserves to go to jail and do hard time. I cant believe he may have thrown away everything to play stupid thug games and torture dogs.
In reading the description from the two defendants that copped a plea, it is nothing more than animal torture and cruelty. In some ways it seems similar to child abuse in that you are abusing an innocent. the descriptions of how he/ they killed the dogs is terrible and I stopped reading it halfway. It is unbelievable that people still do this crap in 2007.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0817071vick1.html
Comments
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I, for one, will experience perverse satisfaction if he does have his financial and professional life ripped away over this. Even before the dogfighting charges, I thought that he was a goddamn idiot thug (with no other marketable skills, like too many other athletes) that took his fortune, in every sense of the word, for granted... no no no - even worse - he seemed to think himself entitled.
As far as Vick as a player... yeah, he's a great athlete, but I don't think that he's a great QB or a winner. Give me a guy with more game smarts and less athletic skill any day. -
he's reportedly negotiating a plea deal with the guvmnt.
of course Virginia is going to go ahead with their own charges on top of that.
he's screwed no matter what.
i hope something positive comes out of this... -
If convicted I will hold Vick responsible for his actions and enjoy watching him go to jail. However at the same time I place him in a long line of rock stars/movie stars/athletes that were given millions too soon and had no life guidance whatsoever.
As a middle class guy who comes from a very supportive family, it's too easy for me to judge others like Mike Vick, so I hold back a bit and look at the bigger context.
PS., why-fi, besides the braids and clothes, what made Vick thuggy prior to this incident?
PPS. as far as football goes, I had Vick ranked around the 10th to 12th best QB in the NFL. Not elite, but better than at least half the losers starting at QB. -
He's done for - Vick will cop a plea within the next week now that his 2 co-defendents have pled guilty and nailed him on participating with the killing of dogs and the financing of the betting. He'll do less than a year in jail - but, he's going to jail.
Idiocy -stupidity - you gotta be kidding me lunacy - go figure! -
Boygabriel wrote: PS., why-fi, besides the braids and clothes, what made Vick thuggy prior to this incident?
How about maliciously spreading herpes under the pseudonym Ron Mexico? -
WhyFi wrote: [quote=Boygabriel]PS., why-fi, besides the braids and clothes, what made Vick thuggy prior to this incident?
How about maliciously spreading herpes under the pseudonym Ron Mexico?
Yea, I heard about that too but don't know how true it is. His younger brother is unfortunately following in his footsteps with criminal activity. I just dotn understand it.
For me it is so disappointing because he was a young black man that made it to starting quarterback in the NFL (a small list that recently started growing) and had major endorsement deals. I know he never reached his full potential as a QB yet, but I really enjoyed watching him play because he is such a pure athlete. As a football fan I literally smiled when I watched Vick scramble through defenses and throw a ball almost 80 yards with so little effort.
Its like: YOU MADE IT!! All of your hard work, effort, practice, sacrifice and you are on top of the world. And then you keep going back to the thug, gutter lifestyle...for what? Why? I guess the saying is true about taking someone out of the "ghetto" (term used loosely, substitute as necessary), but not being able to take the "ghetto" out of them, etc.
I heard there were dog fighting rings in New York but I haven't seen or heard of any officially- just the folks trying to look "hard" while walking down the street with a pit bull or two that look scary.
I know there are some down south on back roads in Georgia, Mississippi and Florida and some in the black community of Atlanta don't think it's a big deal and support Vick( I was listening to a call in radio show- unbelievable). Clinton Portis of the Redskins got in trouble for saying so and that it wasn't a big deal, he later backed down from those stupid comments.
What gets me is the overall cruelty and abuse of the animals. The fact that they drown or hang them to death is also so sick and they think it is just oh so cool. I'm so tired of this sh*t.
IF he is found guilty, he needs to get the maximum as an example and then go after these other rings and make examples of them. -
WhyFi wrote: [quote=Boygabriel]PS., why-fi, besides the braids and clothes, what made Vick thuggy prior to this incident?
How about maliciously spreading herpes under the pseudonym Ron Mexico?
that's not thuggy. that's scumbag-y.
Pacman Jones is a thug. Tank Johnson is a thug. Bill Romanowski was a thug. But until he's convicted, Vick hasn't done a whole lot that strikes me as thuggy*
*having braids and wearing hippityhop clothes doesn't make you a thug -
Take a walk over to the Nethermead in Prospect Park some morning and you will see Pits being trained to attack - a guy in full padded attack suit lets those monsters come at him full speed with jaws wide open - it's vicious to watch. I have not idea what they are being trained for but I'm sure it's not just to heel.
Here's a quote from a Daily News article..."Dog-fighting is far more common in New York City than most people think, especially in this neighborhood," Massaro says. I've rescued 1,500 dogs in East New York, Bed-Stuy and Brownsville in the past 10 years, and the majority of those animals were involved in dog-fighting."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2007/07/22/2007-07-22_dogfight_is_the_pits.html -
I really had no idea how wide-spread dogfighting is until this story broke.
I am also continually shocked at the number of people who don't find dogfighting to be totally disgusting and utterly morally reprehensible. -
Livetotravel wrote: Take a walk over to the Nethermead in Prospect Park some morning and you will see Pits being trained to attack - a guy in full padded attack suit lets those monsters come at him full speed with jaws wide open - it's vicious to watch. I have not idea what they are being trained for but I'm sure it's not just to heel.
holy......crap.
Here's a quote from a Daily News article..."Dog-fighting is far more common in New York City than most people think, especially in this neighborhood," Massaro says. I've rescued 1,500 dogs in East New York, Bed-Stuy and Brownsville in the past 10 years, and the majority of those animals were involved in dog-fighting."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2007/07/22/2007-07-22_dogfight_is_the_pits.html
WTF is going on? I hope these assh*les get jail time too. -
my dog is a rescue
when she was originally found on the streets of crown heights it was assumed by the severity of her wounds that she had been used as a bait dog
dog fights are still out there
a few years ago i was living in prospect heights
and i remember a group of kids. boys and girls grabbing sticks
and tying a homeless dog to a tree by a rope to beat it.
i stopped them. that shit still goes on -
Subject: Re: I'm so disappointed in Michael Vick
SevenOneEighty wrote: I love watching Michael Vick play football. Here is a man who had everything and he had more talent in his pinky than I could ever have. He was simply amazing to watch. He may end up losing his financial and professional life over the dog fighting scandal.
Agreed. What a dumb way to blow a career. From the sounds of it, he's done for. The whole thing is sick and sad. -
Boygabriel wrote: I really had no idea how wide-spread dogfighting is until this story broke.
It's common enough that any dog owner who'd tie their dog to a post for a few minutes while they ran into a store is a fool. Dognappers are on the prowl.
I was once standing outside of a store and noticed a man untying a golden retriever from a post and leading it away. I thought the man was the dog's owner until a woman came out of the store and started screaming, "where's my dog???" -
i tried staying away from this post but since i saw a commenter on cnn actually say what i've been thinking, i thought hell why not.
i grew up watching dog fights and to be honest had no idea it was a crime of this magnitude. i didn't particularly enjoy it but again didnt' think it was as serious as it is. i'm sure MV knew it was a crime but i'm not convinced he knew how serious of a crime it was. hmmmm, could dog fighting be a cultural thing? i think so but i'm sure everyone will disagree. -
lmboogie wrote: i tried staying away from this post but since i saw a commenter on cnn actually say what i've been thinking, i thought hell why not.
Yea, it is a bit of a cultural thing it seems. I know that to dog-crazy, PETA type folks in NYC, there is almost nothing more cruel , unless you ran overa white baby seal in a Humvee in a national park, than dog fighting.
i grew up watching dog fights and to be honest had no idea it was a crime of this magnitude. i didn't particularly enjoy it but again didnt' think it was as serious as it is. i'm sure MV knew it was a crime but i'm not convinced he knew how serious of a crime it was. hmmmm, could dog fighting be a cultural thing? i think so but i'm sure everyone will disagree.
I watched Byant Gumbel's HBO show, Real Sports, this weekend about the culture surrounding dogfighting and I have to say it moved me even more to be against dog fighting. Sometimes the trainers use kidnapped (dognapped) dogs to "train" the dogs. People would awaken one morning to find their pet dog missing from the yard. One managed to make it back home with broken hips ( they do this to keep the dog from fighting back) and serious injuries and bleeding badly. The dog somehow was released and made his way home...it was devastating. The owner paid for surgery and rehabilitation of his dog and she has permanent damage and scars.
But I will make the argument that not all cultures are equal. Some have traits that are superior to others and some have traits that are worse than other. I don't think you can make the 'moral equivalency' argument for, say, "female circumcision" that happen(ed)s in some cultures by saying "its their culture so its okay" ( this is just and extreme example and I am not saying you support that either).
We are all hypocrites. I eat meat and wear leather articles of clothing and shoes. I eat chicken too, so my motivation isn't just about never killing animals.
But as adults, ignorance of the law, or posting rules on a messages board, are no excuse for breaking the laws/ rules. Michael Vick is mainly in trouble for running an illegal dog fighting ring ( he is being publicly demonized for the alleged cruelty to the animals and lost endorsement because of it too.)
He broke the federal and state laws on the books.
And the laws that exist in cultures must be followed. When you are in the spotlight like him, I'm surprised he wasn't more careful about it. -
7180: i hear you and am not defending dog fighting. i just have a problem with the how the public has demonized mv, is all.
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there are a lot of cultural 'sports' that are illegal and/or demonized by various countries or groups: dog fighting, cock fighting, boxing, bull fighting, all the variations of rodeo events, etc.
I don't have a lot of respect for many of them, especially the ones that are cruel - dog and cock fighting, for instance. those animals don't have a choice, and the way they're trained to fight is absolutely disgusting. in terms of dog fighting, that training has lead to a demonization of certain breeds of dogs -- rottweilers and pitbulls, for instance. if a dog is trained to attack cats, dogs and humans in padded suits, who's to say it won't shred a human being just walking on the sidewalk?
the rodeo stuff is based on actual activities that folks need to do on ranches so I don't have as big an issue with it. but that might be the texas in me talking. (culture ...) and bull fighting is one of those things I both love and hate. culturally (yes, again), I can comprehend the beauty and allure, and can articulate the whys regarding the event. but it's kinda hard to really love something that glorifies providing a beautiful death.
I love boxing, though. consenting adults demonstrating a proper jab? awesome.
in any case, michael vick is a fucking moron. he knew what he was doing is wrong (hello painting a building black) and he did it anyway. he had a great opportunity to make fuckloads of money because he can throw a ball and threw it away. he's really lucky this shit didn't go the RICO route - he'd be in prison a lot longer than he just made his little deal for. and goddamn - what did he lose? something like $140 million? that's CRAZY. -
Livetotravel wrote: Take a walk over to the Nethermead in Prospect Park some morning and you will see Pits being trained to attack - a guy in full padded attack suit lets those monsters come at him full speed with jaws wide open - it's vicious to watch. I have not idea what they are being trained for but I'm sure it's not just to heel.
good god is that article depressing.
Here's a quote from a Daily News article..."Dog-fighting is far more common in New York City than most people think, especially in this neighborhood," Massaro says. I've rescued 1,500 dogs in East New York, Bed-Stuy and Brownsville in the past 10 years, and the majority of those animals were involved in dog-fighting."
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2007/07/22/2007-07-22_dogfight_is_the_pits.html -
lmboogie wrote: 7180: i hear you and am not defending dog fighting. i just have a problem with the how the public has demonized mv, is all.
I know, I know.
Yes, thats why I titled the post using "disappointed" , I mean I hated the cruelty too, but I'm not sure he is the devil either. I am mad that he found it necessary to even be involved in such a thing since he had so much more to lose. Where was his family? Father? Uncle or aunt saying, "Mike, don't be around that kind of thing and don't be involved in such a thing."?
I have been listening to a host of people making Vick out to be a victim of some conspiracy by the press, etc. But I cant help asking why he made it so easy for them. I'm sure there is other activity going on in professional sports and by politicians that is terrible too.
With sports heroes, its more painful because they are seen as mythical. Their myth lives within a certain time frame (the time of the game) and it's a controlled environment with finality - a winner and a loser. There is a beginning a middle and an end to the tale each week. So for many, sports represent one pure area of achievement or greatness that can be quickly realized and admired. Either you re good and perform or you are not and don't perform. As a player, he wasn't perfect, but he had so many admirable, athletic qualities. He was also in a growing class of young black quarterbacks in the NFL (Its hard to believe Dungy was the first black coach to win the super bowl this year in 2007). He was a charming, handsome guy at the peak of his career (27) and possibly headed to greatness- or at least more statistical achievement.
It just hurts me to see him make it as far as he did, to get it all taken away over this - even though it is all his fault. -
The only thing dumber then MV's actions - and I submit to y'all we haven't heard all the gory details yet - is Stephn Marburys' defense of MV...""I think we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals," the Knick point guard told Capital News 9, an Albany TV station. "You know, from what I understand, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."
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He was a really exciting player... with a career 75.7 QB rating. Woo.
Never been a fan. Sorry. -
Marbury is as much as an ass as Vick these days. He should just shut the fuck up about the dogfighting ring thing. I was really surprised he doused himself with such hot water!
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WhyFi wrote: He was a really exciting player... with a career 75.7 QB rating. Woo.
John Elway's numbers from 1983-1998: 79.9
Never been a fan. Sorry.
Now Elway won two superbowls (his last 2 years) and Vick may have had a chance withe better receivers and blocking...just saying.
His rushing yards are ridiculous +3,800.Anything could happen when he was on the field...plus he could throw the ball 80 yards falling backwards.... I know he is not "great", but as a fan of the game, c'mon you will definitely watch a Michael Vick MNF game....over a Trent Green game (I like Trent too). -
This morning Steve Harvey had a bit on his radio show titled "They put Pete Rose - Mr Baseball - in jail. What makes you think your ass is going to get away with it?"
It was directed to MV, Pacman Jones, and a host of others. I think that says it all. -
Other low QB Ratings of great quarterbacks:
Terry Bradshaw: 70.9 - 4 superbowls
Joe Namath: 65.5 - 1 superbowl
some others in there - some hall of famers too- that are around 75 or lower...and without championships...
http://www.profootballhof.com/history/story.jsp?story_id=2356 -
The only thing dumber then MV's actions - and I submit to y'all we haven't heard all the gory details yet - is Stephn Marburys' defense of MV...""I think we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals," the Knick point guard told Capital News 9, an Albany TV station. "You know, from what I understand, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."
I like what Marbury is trying to do with the shoes and his company though....
Marbury is not alone with professional athletes and their opinions about dogfighting:
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Different eras - average QB rating last season was a fraction higher than Vicks. Average.
9-figure contract.
Average.
Oy. -
I have been listening to a host of people making Vick out to be a victim of some conspiracy by the press, etc.
i don't think conspiracy at all. i think people are really upset and hurt by what he did. and then there are other people who had no idea it was such a big deal and are sitting around thinking.... there goes another young, talented, black man in jail.
i really enjoyed reading the rest of your post and agree it's a fucked up situation any way you look at it. -
THIS is what I hate about that stupid son-of-a-bitch. He doesn't know when to quit and he thinks that we're all a bunch of idiots like him -
"Sure, I'll admit to setting up a dogfighting ring... [whispering to his counsel] what is it that'll get me in trouble with the NFL and what'll hurt public opinion most? Oh yeah! [/whispering to counsel] ...but I never BET on a dogfight that I orchestrated (it was for sport, man!) and I never killed no dog (I gave the order and watched)!"
Yeah, and the little compartment was for jewelry... jewelry that smelled like weed.
Ron Mexico? I don't know what you're talking about - I settled that out of court.
Online photos with me smoking a blunt? That, uh, was a hand-rolled cigar from Cuba... we can't do what with Cuba? ... Dominican Republic, man, hand-rolled from the D.R.!
FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKING FUCK.
The court doesn't have to be any more lenient or fucking accept his BS plea - I hope they throw the book at him. -
WhyFi, are you a Panthers fan or something? (jokes)
Dogfighting is inexcusable and morally reprehensible, but the way Vick has been vilified and scrutinized in the media (LONG before this lastest ugly episode) has been a joke, IMO.WhyFi wrote:
I believe the airport security guard backed off that accusation and that whole thing was debunked.
Yeah, and the little compartment was for jewelry... jewelry that smelled like weed.WhyFi wrote: Ron Mexico? I don't know what you're talking about - I settled that out of court.
scumbaggy, but spreading herpes is not illegal.Online photos with me smoking a blunt? That, uh, was a hand-rolled cigar from Cuba... we can't do what with Cuba? ... Dominican Republic, man, hand-rolled from the D.R.!
are you pissed at him smoking weed? are you pissed at the 50% of all nfl'ers that do?
dogfighting is inexcusable, but there seems to be an extra level of hatatude on your part towards vick.
Also you and I know both know analyzing a player's effect isn't as simple as a QB rating.
I don't mean to pick on your posts, just discussin'
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