3 queers need 2Bdrm for Oct. 1st...and GET a big discussion

No, it _shouldn't_ matter, but hey, here in the real world it does, unfortunately. Everyone is segregated for every reason, white, black, queer, straight, female, male, whatever. Were I queer, I could see the advantage of just throwing it out there from the get go over approaching each conversation with a potential landlord with, "just so you know, my friends and I are..." XYZ. Because it DOES make a difference to some people, be it right or wrong. I vote for wrong. There ya go. And stop being offended already, there are a lot better things to be offended about in this world, hell, in this _borough_ than someone being 100% upfront about being queer.

Because I am the one that originally brought this thread off track (if you don't count the title of the post), I will offer some advice...which I think will be helpful?

$1400-1500 will barely get you a one bedroom in Prospect Heights. I'm thinking you are saying you can pay that much in total (if you can EACH pay that, I don't imagine you'll have any problems at all).

Perhaps look into Crown Heights.

You're just a little ray of sunshine.

pitu wrote: It's inevitably straight men, or closeted bi-questioning men, that hassle people for some perceived queer-exclusion. At least that's been my experience on this board. Read the Cattyshack thread from last year in PS if you have any questions about that. SHEESH!

No. It's because if the situation was reversed, it would be discrimination, not, "some perceived queer-exclusion." At a minimum, you have to at least appreciate the irony of arguing against the non-recognition of differences.

As far as the amount of grief that was taken, it was all self-inflicted. Noone was more caustic than her.

BrookFetish wrote: "...probably un-explainable to someone who clearly doesn't already understand."

I do understand what you were trying to do by announcing you were queer. However, I still don't get why it matters. Queer/straight, black/white, rich/poor - shouldn't matter. Segregating ourselves does nothing but harm in the long run.

Are you nuts? The only people I help out are Asian bisexual Jews.
Just kidding -- I agree with you. I like to think that people help people out regardless of differences they might have.

Interesting reading.

BF's initial question is worded very neutrally - you can read anything from gentle support to idle curiosity to antagonism.

laurenB's tone, other than the original post, leaves little room for interpretation - the hostility is obvious. Guess we know how she felt about BF's unintended mini Rorschach test.

Hmm. I seem to remember NOT jumping down ANYONE'S throat. In fact, laurenB said this of me: "Yes, and this would be the rational, non-irritated response that my slightly elevated blood-pressure didn't allow."

But whatever. Have fun with your us vs. them paradigm. Moving on.

daver wrote: Hmm. I seem to remember NOT jumping down ANYONE'S throat. In fact, laurenB said this of me: "Yes, and this would be the rational, non-irritated response that my slightly elevated blood-pressure didn't allow."

But whatever. Have fun with your us vs. them paradigm. Moving on.

See, and again, this is where you kinda are jumping down her throat. Take a giant deep breath and read it again.

Her comment about the rational non-irritated response was her own acknowledgement that her post just before was irritated. And now she was a little calmer and re-explaining. Daver, it may come as a surprise to you, but sometimes things aren't about you. Sometimes Daver is not the subject. Sometimes other people are. So again, yeah, you did jump down her throat. And you made a series of big assumptions about a topic that, again, isn't about you. Just let her do her thing.

Substantively, I've always viewed this kind of dichotomy along the lines of Malcolm X vs. Martin Luther King. Although the two were contemporaries, they very famously did not get along. Malcolm X preached black empowerment and black solidarity whereas Martin Luther King preached unity and harmony... "I have a dream..." My personal opinion is that although the black community needed solidarity in order to remedy historical injustice, the community and society as a whole are best served, in the long run, by simply dropping the distinctions and following along the course of King. And what is upsetting to me, and apparently others on this board, is the fact that by creating solidarity or by seeking community (because Lauren's post was not to merely identify for future landlords; it was to seek help from her community) it strengthens the divisions between us all whereas I really hope for a day that there are none.

When my brother came out of the closet to me, the conversation went thusly (I'm five years older and from the time of I was 18 to 27 was only home for Christmases and funerals and never got a chance for a real sit-down talk... he was 13 when I left our home state to go to college):
Me: So, are you gay or what?
Him: Yah.
Me: Ok. Why didn't you ever tell me?
Him: I figured you already knew.

And that was that. He's not my gay brother... he's just my brother. My friends... the same way. And I have no patience for people who discriminate against someone, or even think differently of someone, based on things like sexuality. But ultimately, a herd mentality like Lauren's serve to further divide us and keep off the day where we can have a great society.

As far as being talked down to... Lauren, you were offered honest and well-intended advice. It would be very difficult to find a 2-br for $1400/mo that could comfortably house 3 people in PH. Noone is being condescending. They're trying to help you by directing your search towards somewhere where it would be more fruitful. You never said in the beginning you've lived in Brooklyn for a few years and are generally familiar with the market... you only lashed that out after the advice was given.

Best of luck anyways. Because yes, we are all in this together.

Mateo, I think the point that you are missing is the amount of exlusion thrown at the queer community every day. Since I can tell from your tone that you are genuine, (and I, for one appreciate that) I think its worth explaining a little.

Currently twenty-six states have constitutional amendments explicitly barring the recognition of same-sex marriage, confining civil marriage to a legal union between a man and a woman. Forty-three states have statutes restricting marriage to two persons of the opposite sex, including some of those that have created legal recognition for same-sex unions under a name other than "marriage" which accounts for 4: VT, CT, NH, NJ. A small number of states even ban any legal recognition of same-sex unions that would be equivalent to civil marriage. In the state of Virginia, an act was passed effectively barring any legal agreement between members of the same sex, regardless of whether they were perceived as a couple or not. This effectively strips queers in Virginia of the ability to put in the legal paperwork that those of us in other states attempting to step around the prohibition of marriage currently do. In several other states, again, Virginia, Florida, Mississippi, Utah, queers are expressly unable to adopt children. There seems to be a lot of exclusion already going on.

As a queer person who is in a long term committed relationship, let me tell you what I have had to do to make sure my relationship has anywhere near some kind of status. I have had to go through and write a durable power of atty and a living will (something everyone should do anyway) explicitly listing my partner as calling the shots for me medically. Without that, despite our years together, she cannot visit me in the hospital. I have had to update all my various funds, 401K, social security, etc to list my partner as a "non-spouse beneficiary" so that if something happens to me, she is financially covered just for the funeral alone. She won't see a cent of my social security. That's federally tied. Oh, so is "hardship distribution" which means that if I am in a coma in the hospital she can't use my 401K savings to put towards my medical bills because she isn't my spouse so she can't authorize that transaction.

In the future, let me tell you what life is going to look like for us. We've been waiting to buy a house together. Tho our incomes are pretty different, if she doesn't contribute 50% of the cost and have that well documented, then if something happens to me, the house can be taken from her at worst, and at best, she is going to be slapped with estate taxes and capital gains taxes and have to buy out my remaining portion of the house. When we have a child together, if one of us gives birth, we will have to formally rescind our parental rights to the child only to jointly adopt a biological child in order for the government to recognize it. We better not be residents of a state that explicitly prevents gay adoption then or we won't be formally able to keep our own child. So in addition to all the cost of having a child together, now we get to pony up for adoption lawyers and processing and invite social services into our home.

And thats just the financial nightmare. Let me tell you about the day to day. A lot of days people ask us who gets to be the husband in our relationship. A lot of days people ask us if we just had bad experiences with men. Every day we get stared at. Most days we get asked if someone can watch us. Twice I have been assaulted for being queer by someone on the street. 8 months ago in Manhattan I had a bunch of construction workers scream "f-ing dyke" at me. a month ago I got spit on.

You want to know why queer people look for other queer people as a community? Because its exhausting. Its exhausting explaining all of this to people. Its exhausting to try and make people understand the weight of being queer in this country. Its exhausting to come home after a day of defending the way god made you and all you want to do is be around people who naturally get it and can empathize with that without having to struggle to understand it.

Sometimes this country feels very us versus them. I don't like it either. I wouldn't choose to live my life in an us versus them way. I would love it if people just accepted that some people love their same gender and wanted to support it for no other reason than the world needs more love in it. But the reality in this country is getting further and further from that point. So after a while you start to just accept that and start trying to be around people that can build back up your sense of love and happiness and support in this world.

So when Lauren mentioned she was queer and looking for queer friendly places to sublet, that's probably the tip of that iceburg. It wasn't about anything or anyone but her and probably wanting to come home to her own sanctuary. If only people could have appreciated that.

Its exhausting to try and make people understand the weight of being queer in this country. . . Sometimes this country feels very us versus them

Just curious, this made me wonder if you meant there are more accepting countries. I am really sorry to hear this coming from someone in this neighborhood. I can not imagine what it must be like in 99% of the rest of the world.