Yeah, I am glad I left the Heights
I hate to have reached this conclusion, but it seems that those people talking about "black males between 16 and 45" are more than merely afraid or biased or deluded. So much time wasted avoiding the truth, and that is that so many black males in America, for whatever reason (lack of money, education, racism, etc? Sorry, my father is black, grew up poor, was the target of racist taunts in the South, but he never robbed or mugged or raped or sold drugs ... Call him stupid and a pawn of Whitey, but he is a loving father of 3 who still loves his lovely wife, my mother). Anyway, I grew tired of being afraid to walk home at night, and after being the victim of taunts and actual abuse - last episode was one week before I moved, and this is ironic, but 3 guys approached me and demanded my purse ... and who come to the rescue but a Hispanic off-duty policeman. I am sad about my brothers, but have come to the conclusion that all is lost, for many. Too many Pit Bulls, too many unwed mothers, too much ignorance and refusal to become educated, and WAY too much blaming Whitey! Good luck to all my friends, and good luck to all the "new" Heights people who are there solely for the cheaper rent.
Comments
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Furthermore, while I can almost believe 16", people talking about black males between 16" and 45" are probably deluded.
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wait, where'd ya move?
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doctorj wrote: Furthermore, while I can almost believe 16", people talking about black males between 16" and 45" are probably deluded.
I uh... accidentally came across some... video evidence, but I'm pretty sure it was a prosthetic... -
I moved to Brooklyn Heights, near the promenade. Very nice and peaceful and quiet.
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BrooklynGal wrote: I moved to Brooklyn Heights, near the promenade. Very nice and peaceful and quiet.
Moving there, affordability certainly wasn't an issue. :shock: In those parts, shin bruises from baby carriages are a bigger problem than street crime.
That being said, I'm guilty of the same cynicism you express about some of our less well off people. -
X-brooklynite wrote:
Less well off people are one of the few things I find it hard to be cynical about. In an otherwise rich country that's out of step with the rest of the developed world regarding equality of opportunity in fundamental areas such as universal access to healthcare and education (including tertiary), and which is only a generation beyond achieving some basic civil rights, what else would we expect than large slabs of entrenched poverty?
That being said, I'm guilty of the same cynicism you express about some of our less well off people. -
As I said, my family, in the past, was entrenched in poverty, my father's family had no health insurance, but neither did he have shiny new Nike basketball shoes and heavy gold chains draped around his neck. The excuses - poverty, education - are tired and useless. We need more of a focus on personal responsibility. Come to the other Heights!
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It's good to hear these problems being discussed openly. I think it's important to admit that the problems you mentioned exist, while maintaining focus on the ultimate causes - economic disparity, racism and lack of equal education and opportunity.
Very often threads like this degenerate into name calling and many people seem to feel that any criticism directed at a racial group is a clear sign of racist intent. Hopefully this one is different. -
"doctorj" wrote: Furthermore, while I can almost believe 16", people talking about black males between 16" and 45" are probably deluded.
Actually, that is a fact, a myth no longer...
:shock: -
Blleccchhhh... I'm so tired of these kinds of threads
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Subject: finish your sentence
BrooklynGal wrote: I hate to have reached this conclusion, but it seems that those people talking about "black males between 16 and 45" are more than merely afraid or biased or deluded. So much time wasted avoiding the truth, and that is that so many black males in America, for whatever reason (lack of money, education, racism, etc? Sorry, my father is black, grew up poor, was the target of racist taunts in the South, but he never robbed or mugged or raped or sold drugs ... Call him stupid and a pawn of Whitey, but he is a loving father of 3 who still loves his lovely wife, my mother). Anyway, I grew tired of being afraid to walk home at night, and after being the victim of taunts and actual abuse - last episode was one week before I moved, and this is ironic, but 3 guys approached me and demanded my purse ... and who come to the rescue but a Hispanic off-duty policeman. I am sad about my brothers, but have come to the conclusion that all is lost, for many. Too many Pit Bulls, too many unwed mothers, too much ignorance and refusal to become educated, and WAY too much blaming Whitey! Good luck to all my friends, and good luck to all the "new" Heights people who are there solely for the cheaper rent.
so many black men in america WHAT? finish the sentence
So much time wasted avoiding the truth, and that is that so many black males in America, for whatever reason (lack of money, education, racism, etc? Sorry, my father is black, grew up poor, was the target of racist taunts in the South, but he never robbed or mugged or raped or sold drugs ... Call him stupid and a pawn of Whitey, but he is a loving father of 3 who still loves his lovely wife, my mother) -
sounds like you left the heights for the heights.
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bad dreams in the night
you told me i was going to lose the fight
leave behind my wuthering
wuthering
wuthering -
Subject: Re: Yeah, I am glad I left the Heights
And you posted this here because...? -
so many black men in america WHAT? finish the sentence
What I mean to say is: So many black males in America seem to be living by totally different standards from the majority of the rest of us. I know that everyone is different, but after years of trying to understand, it seems that there is no solution. Race relations are getting worse, and I do think that black males are the problem. QUESTIONS: Why are there so few black males working in the kitchens of restaurants? Why does one hardly EVER see black families together, by which I mean mother and father and children? It is almost always mothers and children, with father nowhere in sight. Why do many black males still judge their manhood on how many children they can produce with different women? Why do so many black males call women "bitches" and Ho's" with pride?
I know I will be called a racist, but this black woman is proud of her humanity, but so tired and disgusted about what my "race" seems to hold dear, at least many of the males of my race.
The only way this will be solved is when we can all speak honestly and realize that there are better ways of living.
So much time wasted avoiding the truth, and that is that so many black males in America, for whatever reason (lack of money, education, racism, etc? Sorry, my father is black, grew up poor, was the target of racist taunts in the South, but he never robbed or mugged or raped or sold drugs ... Call him stupid and a pawn of Whitey, but he is a loving father of 3 who still loves his lovely wife, my mother) -
Oh Christ, cry me a river.
The problems you speak of aren't a *black* problem, they are a *poor* problem, it just so happens that black people are disproportionately poor in America because we got such a great start in this country.
In any case, it's a shame you left the Heights, as you might have been able to meet a living, breathing example of a black male who completely destroys all your self-hating notions and stereotypes. It's unfortunate that rather than look to see both sides of the equation, as far as WHY so many black males end up the way they do, as well as the fact that there are MANY well to do, hard working, ambitious black males, you seem to be so hung up on *bashing* us you almost come off as just swinging in the air, making no sense...
But if you think moving out of PH is gonna solve your hangups with your own people... more power to you -
As a black male who grew up in bed stuy and east flatbush in the 60's and 70's, there certainly were good examples of black males/females that are doing the right thing, but their impact is dwarfed by the irresponsibility of many members of our lower class.
Looking back on my experiences of having people try to cheat me out of the correct change in a grocery store, watching kids sitting on the steps of my parent's brownstone without permission, seeing the sidewalks of the community littered with garbage and broken glass, being made fun of on the street for wearing skinny pants, enduring physical expulsion from teachers and counselors in a black run private school and day camp, and getting my buspass ripped off, I don't blame brooklyn gal for believing the problems are too monolithic and draining to face on a daily basis anymore.
I would take the risk of saying on some level that the black community is an oxymoron for allowing such crap to happen amongst ourselves. -
This is an interesting discussion that lives beyond a Brooklyn neighborhood board. I'm not going to bash BrooklynGal because she posted about her frustrations and experiences. And I don't think she did it to be malicious, but was sincere in her frustration about some serious issues in the black community. She wanted to post them here to voice her frustration and disappointment and it may have been therapeutic for her.
I don't want to get caught up in the "all" vs. "some" argument that typically takes place in these type of discussions about problems in communities. This is a socio-economic problem (poverty), but it is also a cultural problem separate from economics as well (American, Black). When Bill Cosby voiced his frustration 2 years ago, he was hammered down and his words were dissected, but nothing changed for the better. His message was right even if folks took issue with his tone and timing.
BG, I hope you find what you are looking for (happiness, safety, etc.) in your new home. We're sorry to see you leave because your presence makes a difference but you don't owe anyone and here in America you can live where you want. The problems are bigger than one person being able to solve and they took years to get here.
The solutions in the black community are going to have to come from the black community and no one else. We are going to have to hold people and behaviors accountable, select better leadership, vote, stop glorifying bad behavior and bad values, and yes, get rid of some dead weight holding us back from our true potential (psychological, emotional and physical dead weight). It is going to be painful, but the time for excuses is over.
I'm happy that you know at least 1 good man, your father, as an example.
Have you ever considered working with kids in these problem areas? -
SevenOneEighty wrote: but you don't owe anyone and here in America you can live where you want.
Awesome. I'll take a large full service pre-war co-op with a roof deck between Madison and 5th, thanks. -
I'm just not sure if this board is the proper forum for the discussion of the plight of the Black man. Maybe the better question is what's going on in this neighborhood and how can I look forward and contribute to making it better. Everything is never so simple /"black and white" as suggested by the original poster.
P.S. I am glad the OP's father's lack of health insurance did not turn him into a drug dealer. A cookie surely is in order. This reminds me of a hilarious Chris Rock joke. -
Brooklynbound wrote: I'm just not sure if this board is the proper forum for the discussion of the plight of the Black man. Maybe the better question is what's going on in this neighborhood and how can I look forward and contribute to making it better. Everything is never so simple /"black and white" as suggested by the original poster.
...exactly why I asked her why she was posting this here. You will notice that I wasn't answered.
P.S. I am glad the OP's father's lack of health insurance did not turn him into a drug dealer. A cookie surely is in order. This reminds me of a hilarious Chris Rock joke.
If someone wants to discuss and improve the Black community there are certainly better forums where the discussion would actually be productive and useful.
I'm not buying it. -
filmlover44 wrote: [quote=Brooklynbound]I'm just not sure if this board is the proper forum for the discussion of the plight of the Black man. Maybe the better question is what's going on in this neighborhood and how can I look forward and contribute to making it better. Everything is never so simple /"black and white" as suggested by the original poster.
...exactly why I asked her why she was posting this here. You will notice that I wasn't answered.
P.S. I am glad the OP's father's lack of health insurance did not turn him into a drug dealer. A cookie surely is in order. This reminds me of a hilarious Chris Rock joke.
If someone wants to discuss and improve the Black community there are certainly better forums where the discussion would actually be productive and useful.
I'm not buying it.
Yea, Chris Rock at his best - I love that bit.
The original post deals with her neighborhood of choice based on problems in one neighborhood vs. another so on that point its relevant. I like Brooklyn Heights but its too far from the Park for me (so what's the point of living in Brooklyn away from the park?) it was more of a rant and she wanted people to know how she felt - it happens here. in her mind, race was relevant. Even though the topic is too broad for this board.
Dr. J,
Bring your non refundable deposit for the co-op: $1,000,000 and I'll set up a board interview for next year. -
SevenOneEighty wrote:
But you said I wouldn't owe anyone...
Bring your non refundable deposit for the co-op: $1,000,000 and I'll set up a board interview for next year. -
doctorj wrote: [quote=SevenOneEighty]
But you said I wouldn't owe anyone...
Bring your non refundable deposit for the co-op: $1,000,000 and I'll set up a board interview for next year.
okay, scratch the deposit.
come on down.
i gotta stop posting here.
that's the 3rd pre-war co-op I've given away this week.damn. -
BrooklynGal has courage to speak her mind. very few people would have the guts to do it.
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armchair_warrior wrote: BrooklynGal has courage to speak her mind. very few people would have the guts to do it.
Why here? -
Why here? Because there are many topics/messages concerning crime in the neighborhood and it seems most people dance around the problems. I mean, let's face it, we have no problem making fun of and disdaining Italian ways of crime (forget "The Sopranos" ... that's fiction), but if someone mentions the fact that so many black youths in America seem to be playing by totally different rules, they are called racist or worse. The we start hearing about white-collar crime and how the white man is to blame (and yes, some white men are to blame, especially the ones who buy drugs or embezzle funds, etc.), but I grew disgusted at hearing everything but a call for personal responsibility. And yes, I know many many men, of all races and creeds and skin tones, who are wonderful and lovely and worthy of respect. I have mentioned my father. But for goodness sake, let's all be honest: If there were no black males in Crown Heights, and instead their places were taken by Amish families and nuns, would the crime rate decrease? I know I am sounding angry and depressed and sad, and I am. But I am no racist.
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BrooklynGal wrote: Why here? Because there are many topics/messages concerning crime in the neighborhood and it seems most people dance around the problems. I mean, let's face it, we have no problem making fun of and disdaining Italian ways of crime (forget "The Sopranos" ... that's fiction), but if someone mentions the fact that so many black youths in America seem to be playing by totally different rules, they are called racist or worse. The we start hearing about white-collar crime and how the white man is to blame (and yes, some white men are to blame, especially the ones who buy drugs or embezzle funds, etc.), but I grew disgusted at hearing everything but a call for personal responsibility. And yes, I know many many men, of all races and creeds and skin tones, who are wonderful and lovely and worthy of respect. I have mentioned my father. But for goodness sake, let's all be honest: If there were no black males in Crown Heights, and instead their places were taken by Amishfamilies and nuns, would the crime rate decrease? I know I am sounding angry and depressed and sad, and I am. But I am no racist.
Maybe this belongs in the general discussion forum:
Okay, so normally a person would respond to this with "good luck".
But you took the time to post here because you had something to say and you wanted a discussion.
So what is it you are hoping to get from this discussion on Brooklynian? Agreement? Empathy? Anger?
Yes, young black men are facing a huge crisis and are not doing themselves any favors by glorifying hip-hop culture and lifestyles. The black family in general is in crisis also because of a warped value system that is prevalent in some communities. It has been in crisis for some time.
But to bring it back to PH and Brooklyn, what do you think needs to happen in PH specifically? (not that you need to do it personally because I don't think that is a requirement here. Seriously, I know that people may ask you that and you may even be involved in community activity currently. But you cannot be held responsible for the actions of others).
I only ask because you felt the need to post your feelings.
Beyond Brooklyn, I would start by saying that black people (all people) must start to immediately reject current hip-hop culture and the notion of moral equivalence for every action (i.e., all behavior is fine and good and we should be tolerant and not judge anyone- ever - its just different, etc). This philosophy has damaged our country and specifically the weaker, poorer ( black) communities who act as "canaries in the coal mine" in our society. They get hit the worst and are most damaged by this accepted notion. All actions and behaviors are NOT acceptable. Some are wrong and unacceptable and some are better than others.
Now I grew up on rap like sugar hill, run dmc, whodini, tribe, De La Soul, and all the old school artist; I love all of them.But it was different than what we have now - which is the straight glorification of crap. But as a start, I would say that would be number 1.
Number 2 on my list would be to be for all to be responsible for your personal actions and decisions in life; no excuses and no blame.
For example, if you have 3 kids by the time you are 21 and are broke, that is YOUR fault and not mine. The information and birth control is out there. No excuses.
I know I will get grief from some for even suggesting personal responsibilit. That's how far out we are in this country today. You can't even suggest that a person's situation in life might have something, ANYTHING to do with THEIR choices is absolutely unacceptable and politically incorrect. We have been doing this for decades now and the situation is NOT improving for too many.
Maybe it's time for another approach. -
I don't have a problem with you posting your feelings, there is a reason that I asked why you posted it here.
This isn't really about Prospect Heights or Brooklyn - the problems in poor black communities are universal - so yeah, it's posted in the wrong place.
This is about you moving to a whiter richer neighborhood from a poorer blacker neighborhood because you don't like the way that many poor Black men behave and because you didn't feel safe. It's a legitimate discussion but me thinks that, unless you are looking for empathy or implicit agreement from the largely white posters on this form, I strongly suspect that you posted in the wrong place. You might find a better place for this discussion to be on the BET forums. -
SevenOneEighty wrote: know I will get grief from some for even suggesting personal responsibilit. That's how far out we are in this country today. You can't even suggest that a person's situation in life might have something, ANYTHING to do with THEIR choices is absolutely unacceptable and politically incorrect. We have been doing this for decades now and the situation is NOT improving for too many.
I eagerly wait to see if anyone is going to give you grief about personal responsibility.
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